Thank you Narain Singh ji. Regards, Ashwini
> On 02-May-2015, at 12:18 am, Narain Singh Chauhan <[email protected]> > wrote: > > aNAGALLIS ARVENSIS, COMMONLY KNOWN AS Neeli ka phool & Jonmari (Killer of > snales) in Sanskrit. > > > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 11:37 PM, surajit koley <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > I am equally ignorant Ashwini Ji, if not more. You asked how to differentiate > foemina and coerulea. Garg Sir forwarded the thread to me. I searched and > provided the probable answer based on various websites. All of those sites > may be wrong. It is irrelevant now. For, you have KEY by Gurcharan Sir. > Incidentally, in my 1st reply mail > <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/kcogdKv3uuY/I0_L_rVxQIoJ> I > did mention that eFI (our group) had clear demarcation. > > I do not know that if foemina is present in our country or not. Neither do I > know if our species is var. coerulea. Again it is irrelevant now. You have > KEY by Gurcharan Sir. > > I only wish to know if Anagallis caerulea L. is same species as A. latifolia > L. > > FoC thinks A. arvensis L. flower can be blue or red - > http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200016886 > <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200016886> > FoP divides it depending on flower colour > http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200016886 > <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200016886> but at > the same time gives a note about latifolia in its A. arvensis var. coerulea > page - http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250081215 > <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250081215>. > > Now, where could I find difference between latifolia and coerulea! > > Thank you > Regards > surajit > > > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 10:42 PM, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > Dear Surajit ji, > Thank you once again for taking the time to explain it patiently. The > illustration in the first link is wonderful and shows a plant close to my > sample. > > I am still confused though. What does A. avensis L. represent–the scarlet > variety or the blue one or both? Could we still call it a variation as in A. > avensis L. var. caerulea? > > So far I was only trying to see if it was A. avensis or A. foemina but now > realise that it is more complicated than that (if I understand correctly, you > are pointing out the possibility that these are the same taxa). What would be > the most reliable standard to follow here? > > This website treats A. arvensis L. and A. foemina Mill. as synonyms. > http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/03030800-0b07-490a-8d04-0605030c0f01/media/Html/Anagallis_arvensis.htm > > <http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/03030800-0b07-490a-8d04-0605030c0f01/media/Html/Anagallis_arvensis.htm> > > I am sorry if I annoy you with my ignorance but I sincerely do not know the > answers to these questions. > > Warm regards, > Ashwini > > > >> On 01-May-2015, at 4:43 pm, surajit koley <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Dear Ashwini Ji, >> >> When I write A. arvensis L. I mean Anagalls arvensis Linnaeus. >> As for your concern regarding latifolia you may like to see >> http://plantillustrations.org/illustration.php?id_illustration=86648 >> <http://plantillustrations.org/illustration.php?id_illustration=86648>. >> As for your question regarding caerulea please check >> http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.flora.floc009063 >> <http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.flora.floc009063> >> http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.mpu006275 >> <http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.mpu006275> >> Can you please tell me which one do we have Wight's latifolia >> <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2636074> or Sweet's indica >> <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2636064> or Linné's caerulea >> <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2636034>? >> >> As for your question regarding KEW's label in foemina herb. you need to >> check http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.k000750810 >> <http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.k000750810> >> >> Does this satisfies you? >> >> Thank you >> Regards >> surajit >> >> >> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:54 AM, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> Thank you Surajit ji for this detailed search. Indeed, it is difficult to >> tell from the pictures. I think we all seem to agree that my sample was >> Anagallis arvensis and not A. foemina (which was the major question to begin >> with). >> >> Looking at Dr Gurcharan Singh’s clear keys on efi, I concluded that we had >> A. arvensis subsp. caerulea. Are we now seeing that the subsp. part may not >> be correct and that it should be Anagallis arvensis L.? I am assuming L >> stands for Latifolia here. >> >> If both A. arvensis subsp. caerulea and A. arvensis L. are identical, isn’t >> the question then of a technicality–of whether the same should be called by >> either of these two names? >> >> The note at the bottom of the KEW sample has A. arvensis L. var .… written >> on it and not A. foemina as indicated by you. >> >> <Screen Shot 2015-05-01 at 7.51.37 am.png> >> >> I may have understood it incorrectly and if I have, please correct me. >> >> Thanks and regards, >> Ashwini >> >>> On 30-Apr-2015, at 11:48 pm, surajit koley <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> This is a tough question, to differentiate the two taxa (or is it one?), in >>> spite of eFI having a clear demarcation. >>> >>> Flower character, length of pedicels etc are often overlapping. While sites >>> like >>> http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/03030800-0b07-490a-8d04-0605030c0f01/media/Html/Anagallis_arvensis.htm >>> >>> <http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/03030800-0b07-490a-8d04-0605030c0f01/media/Html/Anagallis_arvensis.htm> >>> or http://flowers2.la.coocan.jp/Myrsinaceae/Anagallis%20arvensis.htm >>> <http://flowers2.la.coocan.jp/Myrsinaceae/Anagallis%20arvensis.htm> or >>> http://hirc.botanic.hr/fcd/DetaljiFrame.aspx?IdVrste=941 >>> <http://hirc.botanic.hr/fcd/DetaljiFrame.aspx?IdVrste=941> think all is >>> same some other sites like the following links think otherwise - >>> http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20foemina >>> <http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20foemina> >>> http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20arvensis >>> <http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20arvensis> >>> I think number of seeds may help - 10 to 23 in foemina and 20 to 35 in >>> arvensis (caerulea L.). >>> >>> Here is KEW herb of foemina - >>> http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000750810 >>> <http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000750810>. >>> >>> Since pedicels in the attached pics are longer than the subtending leaves, >>> and I prefer to follow FoC it is likely to be A. arvensis L. >>> >>> Thank you >>> Regards >>> surajit >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:47 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> I think you should be right. >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Date: 24 April 2015 at 17:51 >>> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:221413] Re: Blue Pimpernel ABAPR01/17 >>> To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Cc: efloraofindia <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you very much Dr Garg. I am attaching here more photos to go with the >>> key. Please advise if my understanding is correct; >>> >>> >>> The first sample, petals are longer than sepals and petal edges are >>> minutely hairy like a torn paper. >>> <_MG_0262_13April15.jpg> >>> >>> The second sample from a different location shows pedicel longer than >>> leaves. >>> >>> <_MG_0272_18April15.jpg> >>> >>> Petals are overlapping. >>> <_MG_0272c_18April15.jpg> >>> >>> >>> Can we conclude from this that the flower is A. arvensis var. caerulea? >>> >>> Thanks and regards, >>> Ashwini >>> >>> >>>> On 24-Apr-2015, at 5:24 pm, J.M. Garg <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Keys are available at Anagallis >>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/po/primulaceae/anagallis> >>>> >>>> On 24 April 2015 at 17:15, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> Thank you Dr Garg. I am not sure if it is Anagallis arvensis ssp. foemina >>>> or Lysimachia formina. The following is from my original message on this >>>> thread; >>>> >>>> "FOI website lists it (or a similar one) as Anagallis arvensis ssp. >>>> foemina. Alok Mahendroo ji's excellent nature blog says Anagallis arvensis >>>> var. coerulea. Wikipedia cautions not to confuse the blue variation of A. >>>> arvensis with A. foemina (or Lysimachia formina) as they are categorised >>>> as different species after DNA studies. >>>> >>>> I do not have the key to differentiate the two. Please advise.” >>>> >>>> Warm regards, >>>> Ashwini >>>> >>>>> On 24-Apr-2015, at 2:14 pm, J.M. Garg <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Pl. see Anagallis >>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/po/primulaceae/anagallis> >>>>> >>>>> On 18 April 2015 at 21:25, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> I found a few more plants at Gaggal Airport and am sharing them here to >>>>> confirm the ID if possible. >>>>> >>>>> Gaggal Airport >>>>> 1300m approx >>>>> 18 April 2015 >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> Ashwini >>>>> >>>>> <_MG_0265_18April15.jpg><_MG_0269_18April15.jpg> >>>>> >>>>> On 15-Apr-2015, at 9:05 am, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I saw these tiny blue flowers in the lower town where I had gone to >>>>>> partake in a local feast. I tried to photograph it on my phone but was >>>>>> unable to do so properly on account of the flower being too small for a >>>>>> clear picture. I collected a sample and hoped that it didn't wilt in the >>>>>> time it took me to reach home. It survived the journey and I made some >>>>>> photographs propping it up with a discarded cardboard box (hence the >>>>>> brown in the pictures). >>>>>> >>>>>> I was tickled on finding that it was called the Blue Pimpernel and was >>>>>> useful as a weather indicator due to its propensity to close before bad >>>>>> weather. I have not yet asked the local shepherds if they use this >>>>>> 'shepherd's weather-glass', but will do so soon. FOI website lists it >>>>>> (or a similar one) as Anagallis arvensis ssp. foemina. Alok Mahendroo >>>>>> ji's excellent nature blog says Anagallis arvensis var. coerulea. >>>>>> Wikipedia cautions not to confuse the blue variation of A. arvensis with >>>>>> A. foemina (or Lysimachia formina) as they are categorised as different >>>>>> species after DNA studies. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do not have the key to differentiate the two. Please advise. >>>>>> >>>>>> Blue Pimpernel >>>>>> Dharamshala, HP >>>>>> 1500m approx. >>>>>> 13 April 2015 >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>> >>>>>> <_MG_0235_13April15.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_0234_13April15.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_0223_13April15.jpg> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "efloraofindia" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix >>>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix>. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> With regards, >>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>> etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for >>>>> free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, >>>>> please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the >>>>> world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>>> Efloraofindia website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> >>>>> (with a species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). >>>>> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>>> India'. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> With regards, >>>> J.M.Garg >>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>> etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for >>>> free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, >>>> please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the >>>> world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>> Efloraofindia website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with >>>> a species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner >>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>> India'. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> With regards, >>> J.M.Garg >>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, >>> please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the >>> world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>> Efloraofindia website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with >>> a species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner >>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>> India'. >>> >> >> > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix > <http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. 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