Dear Sir "This means that it is legitimate for amchis (doctors of traditional Tibetan Medicine in Bhutan are known as dungtshos) long resident in Ladakh AND those based a MEN-TSEE-KHANG to collect material for herbal formulations - provided it carried out in a responsible fashion."
No that doesn't make it legitimate for amchis to collect. According to Indian laws, they (indian tribals) have the right to collect from their area. Not all Amchis are native indian tribes. Many of them are refugees from Tibet who have limited rights. Please also remember that many of these amchis dont collect plants by themselves, but they hire locals or even outsiders to supply plants to them. How much they collect depends on how much money they want to earn. Infact when the red data book of Indian plants was published in 1986, Dactylorhiza hatagirea was assessed to be Critically Endangered but many disagreed to it including myself. No doubt there has been immense collection of it but as I said above a particular elevation it is common as per my personal observation, but may be it was more common decades ago. Yes Amchis are accepted in Indian Traditional Medicine but I believe many plants are being sold out of India legally or illegally. For example plants like Cordyceps are collected in India but used mainly in Chinese Traditional medicine. Never heard of it being used in India. So you can see the violation of Indian law here. Recently we examined tubers from Hong Kong market and through barcoding we found out that they were Gymnadenia orchidis although the bag was labelled as Dactylorhiza. You will be shocked that in the name of deer femur, we have seen dog femur being sold in Chinese traditional medicine shop. I just feel that they adulterate to make more and easy money or just that they dont know how to differentiate as the tubers are very similar. On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 8:23 AM, C CHADWELL <[email protected] > wrote: > My understanding is that 'Tibetan' Medicine has been officially > adopted/sanctioned as a health-care > system in India. > > This means that it is legitimate for amchis (doctors of traditional > Tibetan Medicine in Bhutan are known > as dungtshos) long resident in Ladakh AND those based a MEN-TSEE-KHANG to > collect material for > herbal formulations - provided it carried out in a responsible fashion. > > This would include collection of Dactylorhiza hatagirea (and presumably > D.kafiriana) in Ladakh and Himachal Pradesh > and Gymnadenia orchidis (if it is present) which are likely to be > collected as "dbang-lag". > > As this has been going on for CENTURIES and D.hatagirea was described in > 'Flowers of the Himalaya' > and by Stewart as "common" (and the number of amchis operating in Ladakh, > much reduced in recent > decades) THERE IS NOTHING to suggest that this species is SERIOUSLY > Endangered in this part of > the Himalaya at least. UNLESS THERE HAS BEEN A MASSIVE INCREASE IN > CONSUMPTION WITHIN > 'INDIAN' MEDICINE? > > I assume that amchis in places like Ladakh have collected RESPONSIBLY by > NOT remove colonies/ > populations of this orchid in their entirety. Since the tubers (roots) are > harvested, this involves > digging up the whole plant. IF collection takes place AFTER seed has > been dispersed, this is less bad. > > *It would be INFORMATIVE if PROPER SURVEYS OF TYPICAL HABITAT FOR THIS > ORCHID HAVE * > *BEEN UNDERTAKEN IN LADAKH & LAHOUL to SCIENTIFICALLY ASSESS levels of > threat to* > *wild populations. * > > *Flora of Lahaul-Spiti STATES that "THE large scale exploitation MAY lead > to extinction from the* > *natural habitat" but I ask, what is the ACTUAL EVIDENCE, that this orchid > is being collected on a* > *LARGE scale? I do not know the answer to this nor does ANYONE.* > > *The image taken for me showing what are likely to be Dactylorhiza > hatagirea tubers being dried was* > *in Lahoul. The collectors (presumably operating illegally) were not > local men.* > > *Yes, it is right and proper to express concerns and one way would surely > be to monitor QUANTITY* > *of dried tubers being purchased. * > > *But UNLESS there is evidence to INCREASED demand/usage cf. say the > 1970s/1980s, when D.hatagirea* > *was considered as "common" in suitable habitats (and thus collection of > such quantities appeared * > *sustainable). IF this is the case then CLAIMS of risk of extinction > have been EXAGGERATED.* > > *I KNOW from personal experience "in the Himalaya" that some species which > are CLAIMED to be* > *'rare and endangered' are NO SUCH THING.* > > *Surely, FINITE, resources for a CONSERVATION should be directed towards > those species GENUINELY* > *rare.* > > *Just because a plant is used for medicinal purposes does NOT > automatically mean it is CRITICALLY* > *ENDANGERED (which means it is about to become extinct).* > > *CRYING WOLF too often, will, in time cause GREAT harm.* > > > Best Wishes, > > > Chris Chadwell > > > 81 Parlaunt Road > SLOUGH > SL3 8BE > UK > > www.shpa.org.uk > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]> > *To:* J.M. Garg <[email protected]> > *Cc:* efloraofindia <[email protected]>; C CHADWELL < > [email protected]> > *Sent:* Monday, 16 January 2017, 13:10 > *Subject:* Re: Datylorhiza hatagirea sensu lato in HP & Uttarakhand > > Just forgot to mention that yes, Amchis are around in himalayan region, > some as a part of tibetan refugee and some illegal. But please remember > that Dactylorhiza hatagirea atleast is also used in Indian traditional > medicine. > Pankaj > > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 9:06 PM, Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Dear Sir > > 1. As I see all pink flowers in this thread belong to Dactylorhiza > hatagirea. The tubers if collected from this plant then its ok they too are > Dactylorhiza. > > 2.The greenish white flower pic at the end is not clear but does look like > Dactylorhiza viridis (=Coeloglossum viride). If you have more pics I can > check, because in this particular pic, I cant get any glimpse of the > labellum. Just for your information Mr. Kishan Lal passed away recently. He > was an engineer by profession and a keen collector. Most of his orchids > were either identified by Jeewan and myself till 2008 (following which I > had cut off my connections with him).or by BSI. D. viridis colour varies > from pale green to green to even red. This is one species extremely > widespread and hence such variations are obvious. > > Thanks and regards > Pankaj > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:34 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji. > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "C CHADWELL" <[email protected] om > <[email protected]>> > Date: 16 Jan 2017 5:59 a.m. > Subject: Datylorhiza hatagirea sensu lato in HP & Uttarakhand > To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]> > Cc: > > Aswal & Mehrotra in 'Flora of Lahaul-Spiti' (1999) found D.hatagirea to be > common in grassy meadows on slopes > at Khoksar. > > They observed that the tubers are an important ingredient of many > Ayurvedic and Unani preparations and therefore > collected by the local people for sale. > > Bor's specimen at Dehra Dun which had been identified as A.maculata is in > fact D.hatagirea. A.maculata being a > European species which does not occur in India. The plant reported by > Aitchison in 1868 as A.maculata is probably > A.hatagirea. > > Koelz (1979) found an attractive rose-coloured orchid common in the > meadows of Lahaul, known in Tibetan as 'Wanglak' ( > hand-shaped root) used by local doctors of Tibetan Medicine. This was > only partially identified as Habernaria sp. Was this > Gymnadenia orchidis or perhaps Dactylorhiza (and if so, D.hatagirea or > D.kafiriana)? > > Collet in 'Flora Simlensis' (1921) also got it wrong (presumably following > FBI) finding what he thought was Orchis latifolia > which he said was the 'Marsh Orchis' of Britain in wet ground at Huttoo. > Flower colour dull purple, the lip darker spotted. > > 'The Valley of Flowers' book lists Orchis latifolia (now Dactylorhiza > hatagirea) and Orchis chusua (now Ponerorchis chusua). > > I am attaching 6 images: > > 1. A string of Dactylorhiza tubers having been illegally collected in > H.P.; photographed on my behalf - I don't expect the > Indian collectors (they were not local men) gathered them in a responsible > way (which I believe amchis - local doctors of > traditional medicine do). > > 2-4. Images taken by Krishan Lal at Koksar, Lahoul, H.P. of what he > thought was D.hatagirea > > 5. Image of what he thought was Dactylorhiza viride - which Stewart listed > as Coleloglossum viride (in the UK this > plant is known as the 'Frog Orchid' - the flowers MOSTLY being green. > Just taking a quick look, Krishan's image does > not fit but we have members with much greater familiarity with > Orchidaceae, who can comment more authoritatively. > > 6. Another image of what he thought was Dactylorhiza viride - which > Stewart listed as Coeloglossum viride (in the UK this > plant is known as the 'Frog Orchid' - the flowers MOSTLY being green. > This seems more promising. Perhaps Krishan made > a labelling error (which he did from time-to-time). > > Just supposing Krishan photos from Gulaba were taken where both > Dactylorhiza hatagirea and Coeloglossum viride grew together, > the POSSIBILITY of hybrids exists. *In the UK, C.viride is known to > hybridise with a number of Dactylorhiza species.....* > > > > > Best Wishes, > > > Chris Chadwell > > > 81 Parlaunt Road > SLOUGH > SL3 8BE > UK > > www.shpa.org.uk > > > > > > > > -- > ****************************** ****************************** > ****************************** **************************** > *Pankaj Kumar*, Ph.D. > *IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia* > > *Office*: > > Conservation Officer > > Orchid Conservation Section > > Flora Conservation Department > > Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation > Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. > > *Residence*: > House no. 39, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo Tsuen > Lam Tsuen, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. > *email*: [email protected]; [email protected] > *Phone*: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 > (mobile); *Fax*: +852 2483 7194 > > > > > -- > ************************************************************ > ********************************************************** > *Pankaj Kumar*, Ph.D. > *IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia* > > *Office*: > > Conservation Officer > > Orchid Conservation Section > > Flora Conservation Department > > Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation > Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. > > *Residence*: > House no. 39, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo Tsuen > Lam Tsuen, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. > *email*: [email protected]; [email protected] > *Phone*: +852 2483 7128 <2483%207128> (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 > 9436 6251 <9436%206251> (mobile); *Fax*: +852 2483 7194 <2483%207194> > > > > -- ****************************************************** **************************************************************** *Pankaj Kumar*, Ph.D. *IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia* *Office*: Conservation Officer Orchid Conservation Section Flora Conservation Department Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. *Residence*: House no. 39, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo Tsuen Lam Tsuen, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. *email*: [email protected]; [email protected] *Phone*: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile); *Fax*: +852 2483 7194 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
