Thanks for your clarification of important points.
I think it is worth mentioning that Indian deserves greater recognition and
credit fortaking in large numbers of refugees from Tibet and being prepared to
host H.H. TheDalai Lama at Dharamsala. The latter does not make them popular
with a certain powerfulneighbour.
CLEARLY, Dactylorhiza was NOT 'Critically Endangered' in 1986. I think it is
importantto spell out what this actually means i.e. in imminent danger of
becoming EXTINCT.
THIRTY years later it is NOT Extinct, no matter what state populations are in
the wild -and this INEVITABLY varies from district to district and region to
region.
I can well believe that the species is NOT as common as it was decades ago. IF
typicalhabitat of any species is reduced then it will come as no surprise that
population size hasreduced - regardless of whether a species is collected or
not for any use!
But Scientists MUST NOT get caught up with 'tabloid-style' sensationalist
claims/head-lines -there MUST be actual evidence.
I am sure ADULTERATION has been an issue for NUMEROUS medicinal species for
centuries, if notmillennia. The Romans brought with them plants of various
sorts. The Moghuls introduced variousplants into Kashmir.
Plants will ALWAYS have been MISIDENTIFIED thus leading to UNINTENTIONAL
adulterationand SOME medicinal species have ALWAYS been DELIBERATELY
adulterated - just as happens withdrug supplies in the West. Coventry in his
Series on WILD FLOWERS OF KASHMIR talks of medicinalspecies being adulterated
and this was almost a century ago. SMUGGLING has always taken place. Certain
plants were smuggled into Lahaul from Kashmir and are grown there now - just
as, I understand,Moravian Missionaries first introduced potatoes, now a major
crop. And much as the potato is associatedwith Britain it was 'taken' from the
Andes. The Spanish spread many plants around the world (as did thePortugese
though probably to a lesser extent). Many plants grown in Indian cities
originate from Central orSouth America and Africa. In terms of ornamental
plants, the world over, people seem more interested incultivated plants from
other parts of the world.
I recollect when briefly at the Institute of Traditional Medicine in Thimphu,
Bhutan in the 1990s thatthere was an issue about low-altitude plant material
imported from India for use in formulations inBhutanese Medicine (pretty much
all the high-altitude plants were collected within Bhutan). Someof the items
supplied were clearly not the genuine article. Though nothing new about this.
Doctors of Traditional Medicine in Bhutan are (or at least were) not paid as
such, so it came as ashock to Bhutanese when people starting coming over the
borders into Bhutan to collect Cordyceps- this happened when the price rose
significantly.
Being 'tricked' is nothing knew all over the world. I briefly took an interest
in Pashmina and it soon becameapparent that almost NONE of the supposedly 100%
Pashmina sold in Kathmandu is genuine - almost allis synthetic....
At the height of the 'Pashmina' fashion peak, I KNOW that the top designers,
who charged considerable sumsfor their clothes were frequently sold FAKE
'pashmina'.... They could not tell the difference.
India tourists on Rohtang shoud be aware of India sellers of supposed Saffron -
which at times is just strips ofpaper which has been died or 'Musk' which is
assorted hair and glue boiled up.
The ART and ANTIQUES trade has plenty of 'fakes'. Few people can tell the
genuine articles, whether plantor animal products or otherwise. HIGH price is
no guarantee that something is genuine.
Best Wishes,
Chris Chadwell
81 Parlaunt Road
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK
www.shpa.org.uk
From: Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]>
To: C CHADWELL <[email protected]>
Cc: J.M. Garg <[email protected]>; efloraofindia
<[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, 18 January 2017, 1:03
Subject: Re: Datylorhiza hatagirea sensu lato in HP & Uttarakhand
Dear Sir"This means that it is legitimate for amchis (doctors of traditional
Tibetan Medicine in Bhutan are known as dungtshos) long resident in Ladakh AND
those based a MEN-TSEE-KHANG to collect material for herbal formulations -
provided it carried out in a responsible fashion."
No that doesn't make it legitimate for amchis to collect. According to Indian
laws, they (indian tribals) have the right to collect from their area. Not all
Amchis are native indian tribes. Many of them are refugees from Tibet who have
limited rights. Please also remember that many of these amchis dont collect
plants by themselves, but they hire locals or even outsiders to supply plants
to them. How much they collect depends on how much money they want to earn.
Infact when the red data book of Indian plants was published in 1986,
Dactylorhiza hatagirea was assessed to be Critically Endangered but many
disagreed to it including myself. No doubt there has been immense collection of
it but as I said above a particular elevation it is common as per my personal
observation, but may be it was more common decades ago.
Yes Amchis are accepted in Indian Traditional Medicine but I believe many
plants are being sold out of India legally or illegally. For example plants
like Cordyceps are collected in India but used mainly in Chinese Traditional
medicine. Never heard of it being used in India. So you can see the violation
of Indian law here. Recently we examined tubers from Hong Kong market and
through barcoding we found out that they were Gymnadenia orchidis although the
bag was labelled as Dactylorhiza. You will be shocked that in the name of deer
femur, we have seen dog femur being sold in Chinese traditional medicine shop.
I just feel that they adulterate to make more and easy money or just that they
dont know how to differentiate as the tubers are very similar.
On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 8:23 AM, C CHADWELL <[email protected]>
wrote:
My understanding is that 'Tibetan' Medicine has been officially
adopted/sanctioned as a health-caresystem in India.
This means that it is legitimate for amchis (doctors of traditional Tibetan
Medicine in Bhutan are knownas dungtshos) long resident in Ladakh AND those
based a MEN-TSEE-KHANG to collect material forherbal formulations - provided
it carried out in a responsible fashion.
This would include collection of Dactylorhiza hatagirea (and presumably
D.kafiriana) in Ladakh and Himachal Pradeshand Gymnadenia orchidis (if it is
present) which are likely to be collected as "dbang-lag".
As this has been going on for CENTURIES and D.hatagirea was described in
'Flowers of the Himalaya'and by Stewart as "common" (and the number of amchis
operating in Ladakh, much reduced in recentdecades) THERE IS NOTHING to suggest
that this species is SERIOUSLY Endangered in this part ofthe Himalaya at least.
UNLESS THERE HAS BEEN A MASSIVE INCREASE IN CONSUMPTION WITHIN'INDIAN'
MEDICINE?
I assume that amchis in places like Ladakh have collected RESPONSIBLY by NOT
remove colonies/populations of this orchid in their entirety. Since the tubers
(roots) are harvested, this involvesdigging up the whole plant. IF collection
takes place AFTER seed has been dispersed, this is less bad.
It would be INFORMATIVE if PROPER SURVEYS OF TYPICAL HABITAT FOR THIS ORCHID
HAVE BEEN UNDERTAKEN IN LADAKH & LAHOUL to SCIENTIFICALLY ASSESS levels of
threat towild populations.
Flora of Lahaul-Spiti STATES that "THE large scale exploitation MAY lead to
extinction from thenatural habitat" but I ask, what is the ACTUAL EVIDENCE,
that this orchid is being collected on aLARGE scale? I do not know the answer
to this nor does ANYONE.
The image taken for me showing what are likely to be Dactylorhiza hatagirea
tubers being dried wasin Lahoul. The collectors (presumably operating
illegally) were not local men.
Yes, it is right and proper to express concerns and one way would surely be to
monitor QUANTITYof dried tubers being purchased.
But UNLESS there is evidence to INCREASED demand/usage cf. say the 1970s/1980s,
when D.hatagireawas considered as "common" in suitable habitats (and thus
collection of such quantities appeared sustainable). IF this is the case then
CLAIMS of risk of extinction have been EXAGGERATED.
I KNOW from personal experience "in the Himalaya" that some species which are
CLAIMED to be'rare and endangered' are NO SUCH THING.
Surely, FINITE, resources for a CONSERVATION should be directed towards those
species GENUINELYrare.
Just because a plant is used for medicinal purposes does NOT automatically mean
it is CRITICALLYENDANGERED (which means it is about to become extinct).
CRYING WOLF too often, will, in time cause GREAT harm.
Best Wishes,
Chris Chadwell
81 Parlaunt Road
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK
www.shpa.org.uk
From: Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]>
To: J.M. Garg <[email protected]>
Cc: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>; C CHADWELL
<chrischadwell261@btinternet. com>
Sent: Monday, 16 January 2017, 13:10
Subject: Re: Datylorhiza hatagirea sensu lato in HP & Uttarakhand
Just forgot to mention that yes, Amchis are around in himalayan region, some as
a part of tibetan refugee and some illegal. But please remember that
Dactylorhiza hatagirea atleast is also used in Indian traditional
medicine.Pankaj
On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 9:06 PM, Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sir
1. As I see all pink flowers in this thread belong to Dactylorhiza hatagirea.
The tubers if collected from this plant then its ok they too are Dactylorhiza.
2.The greenish white flower pic at the end is not clear but does look like
Dactylorhiza viridis (=Coeloglossum viride). If you have more pics I can check,
because in this particular pic, I cant get any glimpse of the labellum. Just
for your information Mr. Kishan Lal passed away recently. He was an engineer by
profession and a keen collector. Most of his orchids were either identified by
Jeewan and myself till 2008 (following which I had cut off my connections with
him).or by BSI. D. viridis colour varies from pale green to green to even red.
This is one species extremely widespread and hence such variations are obvious.
Thanks and regardsPankaj
On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:34 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji. ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "C CHADWELL" <[email protected] om>
Date: 16 Jan 2017 5:59 a.m.
Subject: Datylorhiza hatagirea sensu lato in HP & Uttarakhand
To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]>
Cc:
Aswal & Mehrotra in 'Flora of Lahaul-Spiti' (1999) found D.hatagirea to be
common in grassy meadows on slopesat Khoksar.
They observed that the tubers are an important ingredient of many Ayurvedic and
Unani preparations and thereforecollected by the local people for sale.
Bor's specimen at Dehra Dun which had been identified as A.maculata is in fact
D.hatagirea. A.maculata being aEuropean species which does not occur in India.
The plant reported by Aitchison in 1868 as A.maculata is probablyA.hatagirea.
Koelz (1979) found an attractive rose-coloured orchid common in the meadows of
Lahaul, known in Tibetan as 'Wanglak' (hand-shaped root) used by local doctors
of Tibetan Medicine. This was only partially identified as Habernaria sp.
Was thisGymnadenia orchidis or perhaps Dactylorhiza (and if so, D.hatagirea or
D.kafiriana)?
Collet in 'Flora Simlensis' (1921) also got it wrong (presumably following FBI)
finding what he thought was Orchis latifoliawhich he said was the 'Marsh
Orchis' of Britain in wet ground at Huttoo. Flower colour dull purple, the lip
darker spotted.
'The Valley of Flowers' book lists Orchis latifolia (now Dactylorhiza
hatagirea) and Orchis chusua (now Ponerorchis chusua).
I am attaching 6 images:
1. A string of Dactylorhiza tubers having been illegally collected in H.P.;
photographed on my behalf - I don't expect theIndian collectors (they were not
local men) gathered them in a responsible way (which I believe amchis - local
doctors oftraditional medicine do).
2-4. Images taken by Krishan Lal at Koksar, Lahoul, H.P. of what he thought
was D.hatagirea
5. Image of what he thought was Dactylorhiza viride - which Stewart listed as
Coleloglossum viride (in the UK thisplant is known as the 'Frog Orchid' - the
flowers MOSTLY being green. Just taking a quick look, Krishan's image doesnot
fit but we have members with much greater familiarity with Orchidaceae, who can
comment more authoritatively.
6. Another image of what he thought was Dactylorhiza viride - which Stewart
listed as Coeloglossum viride (in the UK thisplant is known as the 'Frog
Orchid' - the flowers MOSTLY being green. This seems more promising. Perhaps
Krishan madea labelling error (which he did from time-to-time).
Just supposing Krishan photos from Gulaba were taken where both Dactylorhiza
hatagirea and Coeloglossum viride grew together,the POSSIBILITY of hybrids
exists. In the UK, C.viride is known to hybridise with a number of
Dactylorhiza species.....
Best Wishes,
Chris Chadwell
81 Parlaunt Road
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK
www.shpa.org.uk
--
****************************** ******************************
****************************** ****************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia
Office:
Conservation Officer
Orchid Conservation Section
Flora Conservation Department
Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong.
Residence:
House no. 39, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo TsuenLam Tsuen, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong
Kong.
email: [email protected]; [email protected]
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile);
Fax: +852 2483 7194
--
****************************** ******************************
****************************** ****************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia
Office:
Conservation Officer
Orchid Conservation Section
Flora Conservation Department
Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong.
Residence:
House no. 39, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo TsuenLam Tsuen, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong
Kong.
email: [email protected]; [email protected]
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile);
Fax: +852 2483 7194
--
**********************************************************************************************************************
Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia
Office:
Conservation Officer
Orchid Conservation Section
Flora Conservation Department
Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong.
Residence:
House no. 39, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo TsuenLam Tsuen, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong
Kong.
email: [email protected]; [email protected]
Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile);
Fax: +852 2483 7194
--
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