Thanks Balkar ji for uploading the paper.... Hope atleast some member should understand the position of H. vitifolia
for people who think that i am against The Plant List... pls note that, I never said dont follow The plant List... i said dont follow blindly, no doubt its a latest publication on Plant taxonomy of the World and its the best for the Nomenclature.. even i check the names on the site, but even i check them in literature to confirm it,,, but what i found is there are some mistakes in Indian plant,, or some species are not included which are published at state level.... I do not know that The Plant List and the Missouri Botanical Garden had any Indian taxonomist consultant... except few, I think the group is lacking in good Indian plant taxonomist, , who are there in the country but unfortunately not the Group for discussion... regards, On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Balkar Arya <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear all here is Paper > I have access to vol 1 to 100 of J of Bombay Natural History society. > Pls feel free to ask any paper. I may take time top get them converted in > PDF format that the problem > > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 10:21 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Dear Dr. Sngh... >> >> I think you are right.. futile to react... but it needs to get on the >> permanent record about How useful the plant list is and so that our members >> all refer to it or at least not object to it... >> I think its a wonderful resource... >> >> Re: futile to react.... even in my medical college class we had some >> students who got degrees but did not get any learning... in Gujarati its >> called 'Bhanya pana ganya nahi... ie got certificates but did not learn to >> deal in life... or some such thing... >> >> >> se la vi... >> >> I realize how difficult the taxonomy task is... before the human >> tumors/cancers well well defined and classified in the 50s and 60s ... it >> must have been a very difficult job for the doctors who were treating >> them... >> >> Also, the need to standardize plant names was driven home when I started >> studying herbal medicine and then Ayurvedic medicine where there are sooo >> many vernacular names and sooo many conflicting names that its not funny... >> >> cheers is right.... >> >> Goodnite.. >> Usha di >> >> ======= >> >> On , Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> > UshadiFor people like us who were struggling hard to prepare lists of >> accepted names for decades now, the importance of GRIN, The Plant List and >> Sorting Plant Names is so dear. After the two volumes of Index Kewensis 1893 >> or so in which there were lists of accepted names and synonyms, we used to >> always hunt for accepted names as subsequent supplements every 5 years no >> distinction of of accepted names were available and we used to rely on >> regular upldates by Raizada, Rao, and some me for knowing recent name >> changes. It was only after nearly 100 years that we had GRIN as source of >> finding correct names (of mainly American Plants) and now that the Plant >> List is available (2010 onwards), listing all published names and recent >> accepted names, what more does the Botanical community want. Only those who >> have been doing hardcore research know the importance of such publications, >> and that too online. Agreed there are some issues with unresolved names, >> duplicity of names, but these constitute not more than 5-10 percent of >> names. I have been writting to the Managers of the List about errors and >> hope these would be solved soon, but to just reject the database, is >> something no serious researcher can think of. >> >> > >> > All of us can have our opinions on some things, but in the matter >> of names in our database, we can only rely on what is the latest by >> consensus. >> > >> > >> > After reading this concluding statement, I think it is futile to react. >> > >> > >> > >> > "no problem sirji... i do not have any problem you calling it >> Hibiscus vitifolia... >> > >> > but i willl follow what i feel is correct.." >> > >> > >> > We will continue to do whatever is good for the welfare of the group. >> > >> > >> > >> > Cheers Usha di >> > >> > >> > . >> > -- >> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> > Retired Associate Professor >> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> > >> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> > On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Ushadi micromini >> [email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > NO NO NO, >> > >> > we will not stop this thread... >> > >> > the issues are not resolved... >> > >> > >> > >> > First issue is "BLINDLY FOLLOWING THE PLANT LIST" >> > >> > >> > >> > I looked in the history of THE PLANT LIST yesterday (for a different >> > >> > matter) >> > >> > what I found has earned my respect... >> > >> > >> > >> > Its not a run by a flyby nite operation... nor is it a money grabbing >> > >> > operation... >> > >> > >> > >> > Its a KEW and Missouri Botanical Garden joint venture... both places >> > >> > are run by and staffed by >> > >> > very scientific .. very correct, very studious, and top of the line >> > >> > educated folks... both places... They even rate the names as accepted >> > >> > on basis of percentage acceptability, which I thought was very >> > >> > honest.... >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > MOST OF US including you mr. HS will do well to start following the >> > >> > PLANT list as a basis.... >> > >> > then... BASIC RESEARCH HAS its place... >> > >> > let the professors of BOTANY and Taxonomy figure out and publish... >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > SECOND ISSUE IS CAN I GET A PDF OF THIS PAPER: Kosteletzkya vitifolia >> > >> > (L.) M.R.Almeida & N.Patil J. Bombay Nat. Hist. Soc.93: 111 1996 ... >> > >> > which is at the heart of this argument... cant find it on the net... >> > >> > >> > >> > Thanks Usha di >> > >> > ========== >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sep 9, 3:25 pm, H S [email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > no problem sirji... i do not have any problem you calling it Hibiscus >> > >> > > vitifolia... >> > >> > > but i willl follow what i feel is correct.. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > ok.. here we shall stop discussion about this post.. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > regards,, >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:49 PM, Gurcharan Singh [email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > > Dear H S >> > >> > > >> > >> > > > Please don't make comments like ......all the members are just >> blindly >> > >> > > > following the Plant list or other sites for identification of >> plants. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > > There are many well informed members on the group, who can apply >> their >> > >> > > > judgement in deciding what is correct. We have learnt to respect >> each member >> > >> > > > and expect you to follow the same for the sake of this group. Just >> for your >> > >> > > > information the following databases treat Hibiscus vitifolius as the >> > >> > > > accepted name: >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=HIVI >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?19104 >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-2850698 >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >http://www.eol.org/pages/584775/overview >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >http://www.jstor.org/pss/4120636 >> > >> > > >> > >> > > > >> http://www.mozambiqueflora.com/speciesdata/species.php?species_id=139680 >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> http://www.ville-ge.ch/musinfo/bd/cjb/africa/details.php?langue=an&id... >> > >> > > >> > >> > > > These are just a few recent ones. Tanay gave you a valid reason, but >> if you >> > >> > > > still insist that others are wrong, perhaps we may not be able to do >> any >> > >> > > > thing. >> > >> > > > I request again, let us discuss, agree or disagree, but don't >> treat >> > >> > > > others as if they don't know any thing. Let us devote our energies >> towards >> > >> > > > helping members to know their plants. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > > -- >> > >> > > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> > >> > > > Retired Associate Professor >> > >> > > > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> > >> > > > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> > >> > > > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> > >> > > >http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:06 PM, H S [email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Dear all, >> > >> > > >> Apologise if i have hurted anyones sentiments... ... >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> and my knowledge is like a drop in a big jar of Dr. Singh and many >> others >> > >> > > >> on group. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> though i am proud that whatever i have learnt is in a right >> direction... >> > >> > > >> i dont want to pick wrong things from The Plant List... for eg.. >> suppose >> > >> > > >> Kosteletzkya vitifolia name is unresolved because it doesnt have >> basionym in >> > >> > > >> original publication... that doesnt mean that Hibiscus vitifolia >> becames the >> > >> > > >> correct name... instead of making Kosteletzkya vitifolia valid by >> new >> > >> > > >> publication or in newly fresh combination with valid >> publication,,,, or it >> > >> > > >> has to put on discussion.... all the members are just blindly >> following the >> > >> > > >> Plant list or other sites for identification of plants... >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> We should not forget the purpose of the group... >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> my intention is just contribute to group for bringing plants valid >> correct >> > >> > > >> name in front of the world.. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> regards, >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >> On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Tanay Bose [email protected] >> >wrote: >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>> This what ICBN Vienna Code 2006 Article 33.5 states >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>> "33.5. For names published on or after 1 January 1953, errors in >> the >> > >> > > >>> citation of the basionym or replaced synonym, including incorrect >> author >> > >> > >> > > >>> citation (Art. 46 >> http://ibot.sav.sk/icbn/frameset/0050Ch4Sec3a046.htm>), >> > >> > > >>> but not omissions (Art. 33.4 >> http://ibot.sav.sk/icbn/frameset/0037Ch4Sec2a033.htm#33.4.>), >> >> > >> > > >>> do not preclude valid publication of a new combination, new >> generic name >> > >> > > >>> with a basionym, or nomen novum." >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>> Tanay >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >>> On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Tanay Bose [email protected] >> >wrote: >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>> Dear H.S Ji. >> > >> > > >>>> I appreciate your knowledge in plant but I think your way of >> > >> > > >>>> reciprocating >> > >> > > >>>> to senior colleagues of the group is not quite O.K for me. In >> scientific >> > >> > > >>>> community >> > >> > > >>>> if you are vehemently protesting some ideas then you should have >> a >> > >> > > >>>> strong evidence >> > >> > > >>>> for it. It not us who makes these nomenclatural changes but the >> credit >> > >> > > >>>> goes to ICBN. >> > >> > > >>>> Kosteletzkya vitifolia (L.) M.R.Almeida & N.Patil J. Bombay Nat. >> Hist. >> > >> > > >>>> Soc. 93: 111 1996 >> > >> > > >>>> is an unresolved name the reason for it is the absence of >> basionym in >> > >> > > >>>> the publication. >> > >> > > >>>> Hence, the new nomenclatural change doesn't make any effect and >> the old >> > >> > > >>>> name or the >> > >> > > >>>> basionym i.e. Hibiscus vitifolius L. stays as the the legitimate >> name. >> > >> > > >>>> Kindly go through the link provided below. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-2334897 >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>> As a moderator of the group I will request you to be cordial with >> fellow >> > >> > > >>>> members of the >> > >> > > >>>> group. Though identification of plant is the main aim of our >> group but >> > >> > > >>>> we always make sure >> > >> > > >>>> that the interaction within the group stays soothing and >> peaceful. No >> > >> > > >>>> comments from >> > >> > > >>>> any members of the group should hurt the sentiments of others. I >> will >> > >> > > >>>> request you to kindly >> > >> > > >>>> stick to the group norm and try to help help members >> > >> > > >>>> with identification in a bit cordial >> > >> > > >>>> manner. Your knowledge in taxonomy is an asset to the group hence >> we >> > >> > > >>>> will always look >> > >> > > >>>> to get our knowledge refreshed from your ideas. >> > >> > > >>>> forward >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>> Thanks >> > >> > > >>>> Tanay >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >>>> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 11:21 PM, H S [email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>> this plant doesnt comes under genus Hibiscus.... its different. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>> regards, >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Gurcharan Singh >> [email protected]>wrote: >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>>> Both GRIN and The Plant List treat Hibiscus vitifolius L. as >> the >> > >> > > >>>>>> accepted name. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>>> -- >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> > >> > > >>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >> > >> > > >>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> > >> > > >>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> > >> > > >>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> > >> > > >>>>>>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >>>>>> On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 10:25 AM, H S [email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>>>> i think Kosteletzkya vitifolia (L.) M.R.Almeida & N.Patil >> > >> > > >>>>>>> is correct name for this plant. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 6:03 PM, shrikant ingalhalikar >> > >> > > >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> Involucral bracts are not forked and calyx is not >> prickly/bristly. >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> Note the nodding corolla also. This is hence not H. radiatus >> but >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> Fioria vitifolia. Regards, Shrikant >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> On Sep 7, 12:11 pm, Gurcharan Singh [email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > More shots of leaves and epicalyx should be helpful. To me >> it does >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> not look >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > like H. radiatus. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > -- >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > Retired Associate Professor >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> > >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> > >> > > >>>>>>>>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Narendra Joshi >> > > >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > > Hibiscus radiatus >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > > -- >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > > With Regards, >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > > Narendra Joshi- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > - Show quoted text - >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>>>> -- >> > >> > > >>>>>>> - H.S. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>>>> A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a >> mere >> > >> > > >>>>>>> heart of stone >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>> -- >> > >> > > >>>>> - H.S. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>>> A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a >> mere heart >> > >> > > >>>>> of stone >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>>> -- >> > >> > > >>>> *Tanay Bose* >> > >> > > >>>> Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant. >> > >> > > >>>> Department of Botany. >> > >> > > >>>> University of British Columbia . >> > >> > > >>>> 3529-6270 University Blvd. >> > >> > > >>>> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada) >> > >> > > >>>> Phone: 778-323-4036 (Mobile) >> > >> > > >>>> 604-822-2019 (Lab) >> > >> > > >>>> 604-822-6089 (Fax) >> > >> > >> > > >>>> [email protected] >> > >> > > >>>> *Webpages:* >> > >> > > >>>>http://www.botany.ubc.ca/people/mberbee.html >> > >> > > >>>>http://www.botany.ubc.ca/people/gradstud.html >> > >> > > >>>>https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >>> -- >> > >> > > >>> *Tanay Bose* >> > >> > > >>> Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant. >> > >> > > >>> Department of Botany. >> > >> > > >>> University of British Columbia . >> > >> > > >>> 3529-6270 University Blvd. >> > >> > > >>> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada) >> > >> > > >>> Phone: 778-323-4036 (Mobile) >> > >> > > >>> 604-822-2019 (Lab) >> > >> > > >>> 604-822-6089 (Fax) >> > >> > >> > > >>> [email protected] >> > >> > >> > > >>> *Webpages:* >> > >> > > >>>http://www.botany.ubc.ca/people/mberbee.html >> > >> > > >>>http://www.botany.ubc.ca/people/gradstud.html >> > >> > > >>>https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> -- >> > >> > > >> - H.S. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere >> heart of >> > >> > > >> stone >> > >> > > >> > >> > > -- >> > >> > > - H.S. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere >> heart of >> > >> > > stone >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > Regards > > Dr Balkar Singh > Head, Deptt. of Botany and Biotechnology > Arya P G College, Panipat > Haryana-132103 > 09416262964 > -- - H.S. A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere heart of stone
