Sorry Gurcharan ji, if I have used hard words. regards
Pankaj Oudhia On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Pankaj Oudhia <[email protected]>wrote: > Thanks Gurcharan ji for starting new topic. > > In fact I was expecting replies related to the thread. Lets wait for > replies of other members. > > Please Note this clearly that no one can create differences between me and > Pankaj Ji as we often interact offline also. Please don't use our shoulders > for dirty group politics. Please be specific to topics. > > regards > > Pankaj Oudhia > > > On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: > >> I wish we keep the thread an academic one only. Here is the information I >> have: >> >> In Flora of British India the species was described under the name >> Spiranthes australis (R. Br.) Lindl., A species name (rather combination) >> proposed in 1824, based on Neottia australis R. Br. (1810), a species >> supposed to have pubescent inflorescence spike (it is also supposed to have >> pubescent bracts and floral parts partly as I read from other sources). >> >> Spiranthes sinensis (Pers.) Ames, is a name (rather combination) given in >> 1908, based on Neottia sinensis Pers. (1807), a species described from >> China and differing in glabrous spikes (and bracts and floral parts). >> >> It has recently been considered by most authors (including Flora of >> China, Flora of Pakistan, etc.) that these two taxa are synonyms, and as >> basionym of latter is dated earlier, Spiranthes sinensis is accepted name. >> >> It must be remembered that it is matter of taxonomic judgement (and not a >> simple issue of names), as the two species were originally described as >> distinct species (they have distinct types). For those who consider the >> differences are not enough would treat them under single species S. >> sinensis. Those who think (like original authors) that differences are >> sufficient, and are also trying to detect further differences to strengthen >> their distinct identity, would consider them as two separate species. I >> think Pankaj Sahni ji is just trying to do that, trying to settle the >> riddle, and he being a world renowned Orchid specialist is both qualified >> to do that. More so he owes the duty of resolving it for us. Let us >> appreciate that. >> >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> Retired Associate Professor >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Pankaj Oudhia >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Just found that this important thread has converted into personal ego >>> issue. There is nothing personal. I was just quoting the reference >>> literature as Gurcharanj ji always suggest. Will be happy if the members >>> can throw more light on the topic we are discussing instead of personal >>> issues. >>> >>> regards >>> >>> Pankaj Oudhia >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> hehehehe.... thank you sir... >>>> I am here till I am alive... :) >>>> Pankaj >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Gurcharan Singh >>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Pankaj Sahni ji >>>>> Hamen Iss Group menh aap ki bahut zarurat hai >>>>> Bhaghwan apne bhagton ko naraz nahi karen gai. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>> >>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Pankaj Kumar <[email protected] >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hey bhagwaan utha le mujhko...... >>>>>> Often is used here because earlier authors used it saying sinensis >>>>>> OFTEN has hairs.... >>>>>> So Mrs Barretto said the one which often has hairs are hongkongensis >>>>>> and not sinensis. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Pankaj Oudhia < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Quoting the original text >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since it *(i.e.Spiranthes honkongensis)* was first described, this >>>>>>> species has largely been ignored >>>>>>> by subsequent authors who have referred it to synonymy of Spiranthes >>>>>>> sinensis. However, Hu and Barretto (Chung Chi J. 13(2): 4–6. 1976) >>>>>>> identified the often densely glandular pubescent rachis, glandular >>>>>>> pubescent >>>>>>> floral bracts and sepals, and the broad, distinctly 3-lobed stigma as >>>>>>> clear morphological characters that distinguish it from S. sinensis. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> "Often densely glandular pubescent rachis" is for S. honkongensis >>>>>>> not for S.sinensis. "Often" is with meaning in this line. I repeat >>>>>>> Often is >>>>>>> not synonym for Always. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pankaj Oudhia >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 12:51 PM, Pankaj Kumar < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There is a reason why I said that. Because, >>>>>>>> 1. People think that Spiranthes sinensis is often pubescent so they >>>>>>>> described both glabrous one and the non glabrous one as S. sinensis. >>>>>>>> 2. But according to the original descriptions only the glabrous >>>>>>>> one should have been Spiranthes sinensis. >>>>>>>> 3. On the contrary, Spiranthes australis and Spiranthes >>>>>>>> hongkongensis are pubescent and sometimes even with glandular hairs. >>>>>>>> So the >>>>>>>> plant with hairs from India cant be sinensis. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Pankaj Kumar < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There is a reason why I said that. Because, >>>>>>>>> 1. People think that Spiranthes sinensis is often pubescent so >>>>>>>>> they described both glabrous one and the non glabrous one as S. >>>>>>>>> sinensis. >>>>>>>>> 2. But to the original descriptions only the glabrous one should >>>>>>>>> have been Spiranthes sinensis. >>>>>>>>> 3. O >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Pankaj Oudhia < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks. I am quoting your two statements from this thread. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Earlier >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "S. sinensis is not supposed to be pubescent originally. But your >>>>>>>>>> plant seems pubescent." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Now >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Often densly pubescent hairs with reference to sinensis which >>>>>>>>>> was often present with densely pubescent hairs." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Both are not same quotes. Isn't it? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> regards >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Pankaj Oudhia >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Pankaj Kumar < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It has been written in different sense sir. Often densly >>>>>>>>>>> pubescent hairs with reference to sinensis which was often present >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> densely pubescent hairs. >>>>>>>>>>> So they made a new species of the one which had hairs. >>>>>>>>>>> I have not met Mrs Barretto but happened to have met Dr Sun >>>>>>>>>>> recently. She is the one who evoked my doubts. >>>>>>>>>>> Best regards >>>>>>>>>>> Pankaj >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Pankaj Oudhia < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Flora of China Vol.25. Chapter on Spiranthes. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> regards >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Pankaj Oudhia >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Dr Pankaj Kumar < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which reference are you talking about? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Pankaj >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, 8 December 2009 00:47:53 UTC+8, Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sending Spiranthes sinensis (Pers.) Ames (syn: S. australis >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (R. Br.) Lindley) from Manali, HP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pankaj ji and Nayan ji, one of the very few orchids I know, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and that too if it is correct identity. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Associate Professor >>>>>>>>>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~**singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ********************************************************************** >>>>>>>>>>> "Taxonomists getting Extinct and Species Data Deficient !!" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D. >>>>>>>>>>> Conservation Officer >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Office: >>>>>>>>>>> Orchid Conservation Section >>>>>>>>>>> Flora Conservation Department >>>>>>>>>>> Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation >>>>>>>>>>> Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Residence: >>>>>>>>>>> 36C, Ng Tung Chai, Lam Tseun >>>>>>>>>>> Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> email: [email protected]; [email protected]; >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 >>>>>>>>>>> 6251 (mobile). Fax: +852 2483 7194 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ********************************************************************** >>>>>>>>> "Taxonomists getting Extinct and Species Data Deficient !!" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D. >>>>>>>>> Conservation Officer >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Office: >>>>>>>>> Orchid Conservation Section >>>>>>>>> Flora Conservation Department >>>>>>>>> Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation >>>>>>>>> Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Residence: >>>>>>>>> 36C, Ng Tung Chai, Lam Tseun >>>>>>>>> Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> email: [email protected]; [email protected]; >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 >>>>>>>>> 6251(mobile). Fax: +852 >>>>>>>>> 2483 7194 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ********************************************************************** >>>>>>>> "Taxonomists getting Extinct and Species Data Deficient !!" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D. >>>>>>>> Conservation Officer >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Office: >>>>>>>> Orchid Conservation Section >>>>>>>> Flora Conservation Department >>>>>>>> Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation >>>>>>>> Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Residence: >>>>>>>> 36C, Ng Tung Chai, Lam Tseun >>>>>>>> Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> email: [email protected]; [email protected]; >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 >>>>>>>> 6251(mobile). Fax: +852 >>>>>>>> 2483 7194 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> ********************************************************************** >>>>>> "Taxonomists getting Extinct and Species Data Deficient !!" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D. >>>>>> Conservation Officer >>>>>> >>>>>> Office: >>>>>> Orchid Conservation Section >>>>>> Flora Conservation Department >>>>>> Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation >>>>>> Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >>>>>> >>>>>> Residence: >>>>>> 36C, Ng Tung Chai, Lam Tseun >>>>>> Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >>>>>> >>>>>> email: [email protected]; [email protected]; >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 >>>>>> 6251(mobile). Fax: +852 >>>>>> 2483 7194 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ********************************************************************** >>>> "Taxonomists getting Extinct and Species Data Deficient !!" >>>> >>>> >>>> Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D. >>>> Conservation Officer >>>> >>>> Office: >>>> Orchid Conservation Section >>>> Flora Conservation Department >>>> Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation >>>> Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >>>> >>>> Residence: >>>> 36C, Ng Tung Chai, Lam Tseun >>>> Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >>>> >>>> email: [email protected]; [email protected]; >>>> [email protected] >>>> Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 >>>> (mobile). Fax: +852 2483 7194 >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >
