Hello, On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 at 02:03, Levi Morrison <le...@php.net> wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 5:15 PM azjezz <azj...@protonmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hello Internals ! > > > > As @official_php suggested [1], I'm here to propose a new website for the > > PHP Project. > > > > In my opinion, current design looks old, outdated and bland. This sadly may > > reflect "badly" on the language > > > > reputation nowadays. > > > > New comers find it hard to go around the website, to write "comments", > > report issues or write RFCs. > > > > Even signing up for the internals mailing list wasn't an easy task [2]. > > > > Since the development of PHP 8.0 has started, I think its a good idea to > > start working on a new website. > > > > # Global proposal > > > > The proposal here is to do a major rewrite of the PHP sites. This rewrite > > would includes php.net, windows.php.net, > > > > bug.php.net, wiki.php.net, qa.php.net and other official php websites. > > > > It would be done with this in mind: > > > > * No PHP framework (to avoid favoriting one) > > > > * Keep it simple: little to no changes to the database structures > > > > * This site should look modern, simple and feel welcoming. > > > > * A new home page, not a "news" page, but a page simply showing the PHP > > Logo, a code example maybe and > > > > the download link [3]. > > > > * A new community website [4], it can be a place for people to ask > > questions and discuss php in general - no one uses IRC anymore. > > > > * Single account: Users should be able to use the same community account to > > file bugs, create a new RFC (depending on karma) and leave notes on the > > documentation. > > > > * Ideally all *.php.net websites would be "merged" into a single brand new > > website, but I'm not sure about the hosting > > > > specificities (eg, what server does what). > > > > # FrontEnd Framework > > > > We don't need that too, but we can use one ! there's some light-weight > > options out there. > > > > but i'm pretty sure some people in the php community have experience with > > front-end development and will happily contribute. > > > > see : > > > > - https://mustard-ui.com/ > > > > - https://getuikit.com/ > > > > - https://bulma.io/ > > > > - https://picturepan2.github.io/spectre/index.html > > > > # Next steps > > > > I would really like to hear opinions about this proposal. > > > > [1] https://twitter.com/official_php/status/1091903415377108994 > > > > [2] https://twitter.com/SaraMG/status/1092185205572542466 > > > > [3] > > https://camo.githubusercontent.com/762e5d9fcaaa4ecf645343350a91929f99f452e9/68747470733a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f584477675261662e706e67 > > > > [4] https://php.net/community > > > > --- > > > > Saif Eddin Gmati <https://azjezz.github.io> > > I appreciate the enthusiasm. If you think the current PHP website is > old, out-dated, and bland, you must have not experienced the previous > one: > > https://i2.wp.com/www.geekgumbo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/phpsite45.png > > In any case, I hope you realize this is an ambitious project. It will > take a very long time to build a cohesive UI, and then also a very > long time to update the bugs, windows, docs, wiki, etc, websites to > use it. If you are seriously committed to this, then the next step is > to create mock-ups for every type of page across PHP.net that you can > find, and to share them on the PHP Webmasters mailing list (which I've > cc'd). Then, we'll probably give you a few more pages that needs > mocks, after which you will then have to attempt to build the mock-ups > in a few different codebases. > > I did the last redesign, and I took a less rigorous approach. If I > were to do it again, I would be much more rigorous in gathering > requirements and building mock-ups. There were a lot of pages which > needed re-worked because of my design, which took even more time. > While it's okay for some pages to be re-worked content-wise to fit the > new design, you want to minimize it. > > -- > PHP Webmaster List Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php >
Hello, yes, let's do it. I think we must. Thanks for bumping this topic... Considering that Levi already did such a step once, he knows a lot what this means and where will be main issues so he can help a lot here with some advices and all. >From what I've learned so far with the PHP sites: The websites overall are very different from one another and some are actually very complex. The pecl.php.net, bugs.php.net, and the main php.net site are probably the most complex ones and all written in PHP vanilla way. After long discussions (regarding the bugs.php.net site), pecl and bugs sites now include optional Composer for local installation of some dependencies such as PHPunit, generating fixtures, etc. (not on production but for local development). So, they are actually going in the direction of a more modern development. There are also some parts of php sites that aren't available on GitHub and can't be properly collaborated on yet (request to make a GH mirror has been submitted). PECL and bugs sites have received quite a few, very strategic and future prone changes recently with such step in mind also but it's a long way to go. Not using some PHP framework for a reason of not endorsing a framework is actually a really big challenge, but I guess so it should be and we need to reinvent some required parts on the way to make this happen. Deployment+production need also some refreshments but it's a very challenging step from what I understand. For example, to have this up and running, doing a remake, and doing systems improvements at the same time. Few quick suggestions: - Let's keep the approximate wireframes of the websites as are. - Let's make a central place for this discussion i.e. the webmaster mailing list - Let's avoid too big tasks that require a fork + branch checkout + tons of very difficult and time consuming design/infrastructure/app changes and then opening a discussion on the webmaster mailing list to even start considering it. We need to start giving hints and make decisions before that step if this can be done on time. - *.php.net sites under one roof maybe sound useful but separate "services" (as is now) is IMHO a better way into this probably because different servers, databases, usage cases are present. If one site fails, others still work (in many cases). Many *.php.net sites otherwise also use a common repository for a theme [1]. And some are just too different with established practices. - https://php.net/community is in my opinion a bit problematic concept for PHP. PHP can trust its community and ecosystem around it. Mailing lists, bugs, GitHub and such places work quite ok, but infrastructure behind probably need a boost. [1] https://github.com/php/web-shared -- Peter Kokot -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
