This is awesome. The news puts a smile on my face. Super cool. Brian
On Oct 21, 2010 8:38 PM, "Jimmy Schementi" <ji...@schementi.com> wrote: > In-case anyone is living under a rock, this thread has just become much more > relevant; here's why: > blogs.msdn.com/b/jasonz/archive/2010/10/21/new-components-and-contributors-for-ironpython-and-ironruby.aspx > > In short, Miguel de Icaza and I will be helping the community guide > IronRuby, while us plus Michael Foord and Jeff Hardy will help guide > IronPython. Also, IronRuby 1.1.1 has been released, which finally includes > IronRuby tools for Visual Studio and the latest work towards 1.9 > compatibility. I believe Tomas will send mail about the specifics shortly. > > ~Jimmy > > > On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Jimmy Schementi <ji...@schementi.com >wrote: > >> Let's not push Tomas or Jim to say anything; This is a big enough issue >> that I'm sure Microsoft's PR firms are working on this. Again, I suggest we >> be patient for the next week. >> >> ~Jimmy >> >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Will Green <w...@hotgazpacho.org> wrote: >> >>> Well, we've seen a few plus-ones on talking to Microsoft about their >>> intentions for IronRuby. >>> >>> Tomas or Jim, since you're both still on the inside, perhaps one of you >>> could speak, on behalf of the community, with someone at Microsoft who can >>> clarify for us what their intentions are? >>> >>> -- >>> Will Green >>> http://hotgazpacho.org/ >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:42 AM, Jimmy Schementi <ji...@schementi.com >wrote: >>> >>>> Ah, after a nice restful weekend of casually looking at the psychotic >>>> twitter reactions, I think I owe this thread a little attention. >>>> >>>> First off, I appreciate the overwhelming support, and I think I speak on >>>> behalf of Jim and Tomas as well. Thank you for caring so much, and for all >>>> the personal best wishes. Also, I appreciate everyone who stepped in and >>>> "cooled" down the situation. Those who see opportunity in this are >>>> well-suited to help shape the future of the project. But enough with the >>>> mushy stuff ... >>>> >>>> The reality of open-source software is that corporate sponsorship and >>>> funding comes and goes, and it would appear the IronRuby project is just >>>> going through that normal cycle. I'm grateful to Microsoft for not only >>>> employing me, but funding IronRuby to the 1.1 release. Keep in mind that >>>> Microsoft has not officially said anything regarding IronRuby, even it seems >>>> my leaving Microsoft speaks volumes. So, let's just assume what we suspect >>>> to be true unless told otherwise. >>>> >>>> This is a monumental opportunity for you all, the IronRuby community, to >>>> rally around something Microsoft invested in, enough to a initial 1.0 >>>> release, and make it your own. However, there are two things we should ask >>>> Microsoft to commit to during this transition: >>>> >>>> 1. *Be clear about their intentions. *I *know *this will eventually >>>> happen, but I want to make it clear to all of you that this is the first >>>> step. >>>> 2. *Donate IronRuby to a non-Microsoft entity *(again, assuming they >>>> don't plan on continuing funding). Though IronRuby is licensed under an >>>> open-source license, it is copyright Microsoft. IronRuby.net is owned by >>>> Microsoft. The GitHub "ironruby" organization is managed by Microsoft. Etc, >>>> etc. If the intention is to cease funding IronRuby, then a non-profit >>>> foundation owning IronRuby, like CodePlex Foundation, would be ideal, so >>>> that we don't need to jointly own the copyright. There also is precedence in >>>> Microsoft for internal employees to donate to the CodePlex foundation, so >>>> Tomas and Jim can continue to contribute. >>>> >>>> In other words, a complete transition to non-Microsoft ownership. I'm not >>>> the only person with a voice here, so if there is anything else you'd like >>>> to see Microsoft do for a smooth transition, please speak up and let's >>>> discuss it. I'm hoping my leaving announcement will speed this process >>>> along, so assume we have little time to provide "demands". >>>> >>>> After these things happen, then we can all start figuring how to run the >>>> project, put infrastructure in place, and start figuring out what we need to >>>> accomplish to release IronRuby 1.2. Or, if none if this happens in the time >>>> we'd like, we can start FeRb (as @robconery essentially started to do =)). >>>> But let's try to be patient with IronRuby itself for now. I've also hinted >>>> at revisiting RubyCLR, but that will be a separate project (do contact me if >>>> you're interested). Also, feel free to still have the important >>>> conversations brought up in the previous messages; in no way am I suggesting >>>> people stop talking. >>>> >>>> Cory mentioned that my "leadership and vision" was lost. I think you're >>>> taking my job too seriously =P ... but joking aside, I just wanted to move >>>> back to New York and it was time to leave Microsoft, but not Ruby or >>>> IronRuby. So, for the foreseeable future, or unless someone else wants to >>>> step up, you can still count on me to be the face of IronRuby and write >>>> code. Also, my new job is in the .NET world still, so to stay sane I'll >>>> still want to work on IronRuby. =) >>>> >>>> This is a challenging and emotional time indeed. Again, I appreciate >>>> everyone's support and energy. Please keep the energy high, but directed. >>>> Continue discussing "why IronRuby". Work in your private fork, take shots at >>>> fixing bugs or getting more RubySpec tests passing; they'll eventually get >>>> integrated back. Continue blogging about how you're using IronRuby. Show the >>>> world that regardless of Microsoft's position, the community is what makes >>>> the project live. >>>> >>>> Now, discuss! >>>> >>>> ~Jimmy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Jim Deville <jdevi...@microsoft.com >wrote: >>>> >>>>> At this point Jimmy might, but the only one that should be commiting >>>>> there directly is the automated account. Once we get official word from MS >>>>> on what will happen with everything, I’d be happy to discuss the fate of the >>>>> IronRuby organization on Github J >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* ironruby-core-boun...@rubyforge.org [mailto: >>>>> ironruby-core-boun...@rubyforge.org] *On Behalf Of *Orion Edwards >>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:07 PM >>>>> >>>>> *To:* ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ironruby-core] "Start spreading the news" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 4. Rails on .NET >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think asp.net mvc took a lot of the wind out of this particular >>>>> scenario, but rails is still literally *years* ahead of MVC in both maturity >>>>> and thinking. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If we could get rails under ironruby easily deplorable to iis, I think >>>>> this would help a lot >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On question I'd REALLY like answered is this: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Does Jimmy still have commit access to the main repos on github now that >>>>> he's left MS? Does anyone else outside MS have this? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, Orion >>>>> >>>>> On 9/08/2010, at 3:36 AM, Kevin Berridge <kevin.w.berri...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> To Cory's point about IronRuby's credibility in the Enterprise: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think its certainly true that if IronRuby is not a MS supported tool, >>>>> there will be shops that will not be able to use it. On the other hand, >>>>> there are still plenty of other shops that could use it, if only they >>>>> understand what they could use it for and how. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To date, the story of what IronRuby is "for" has been rather weak. I >>>>> know it's a language, and so it's possibilities are just about endless, but >>>>> what are the main areas we think people can derive significant benefit from >>>>> using it? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If IronRuby really does end up being primarily community driven, we need >>>>> to come up with a much better story around what it is for, and helping >>>>> people get started with using it for those things. This could help drive >>>>> adoption, which could in turn help drive contributors. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Some examples of things IronRuby may be 'for": >>>>> >>>>> 1. Unit Testing ( >>>>> http://kevin-berridge.blogspot.com/2010/08/testing-c-with-rspec-and-ruby.html >>>>> ) >>>>> >>>>> 2. Embedded Scripting ( >>>>> http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2009/12/ironruby-rubyconf-2009-part-35.html >>>>> ) >>>>> >>>>> 3. Silverlight ( >>>>> http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2008/08/walk-through-silverlight-flickr-client.html >>>>> ) >>>>> >>>>> 4. ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jimmy talked about #1 and #2 here: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2010/04/mix10-part-3-using-dynamic-languages-in.html >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Kevin Berridge >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Slavo Furman <sla...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I agree with Cory, too, but on the other hand it would be very helpful >>>>> if Microsoft (I mean someone who can speak for Microsoft) clearly say >>>>> what are they intentions with IronRuby (and maybe IronPython, too) for >>>>> the future. >>>>> >>>>> Are they "releasing IronRuby to the community"? Is Microsoft like to >>>>> (officially) participate in future in IronRuby development? If so, in >>>>> what way? As a project owner? And so on... >>>>> >>>>> Only knowing in what situation we really are we can make our decisions >>>>> about what to do. >>>>> >>>>> More clarity will also help with using the technology, for example, I >>>>> am considering using IronRuby for one project and now I do not know >>>>> what to expect from future (questions like - will development of >>>>> IronRuby continue, what about Silverlight and Azure support, what >>>>> about v1.9 compatibility, ...) and it is now became problematic to >>>>> make some of decisions. >>>>> >>>>> thanks, >>>>> Slavo. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Eduardo Blumenfeld < >>>>> li...@ruby-forum.com> wrote: >>>>> > I agree 100% with Cory, we just need to calm down, regroup, give >>>>> support >>>>> > to Tomas, make our opinions heard and continue using the technology >>>>> that >>>>> > helps us become way more productive in our jobs. >>>>> > >>>>> > On the other hand Jimmy will still be around, he just moved to another >>>>> > job. >>>>> > >>>>> > Regards, >>>>> > >>>>> > Eduardo Blumenfeld >>>>> > >>>>> > Cory Foy wrote: >>>>> >> Ok, I like to propose a pause in action. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Here's what we know. Jimmy has moved on, as has Jim. Tomas is the >>>>> main >>>>> >> person left, and from the emails we've received, he's only working on >>>>> it >>>>> >> part-time. I don't know the politics of this specific org, but being >>>>> an >>>>> >> ex-softie I do have an idea, and that hunch is that the politics that >>>>> >> caused the reshuffle were not a conspiracy theory against IronRuby, >>>>> but >>>>> >> just normal organization dysfunction and quarterly reorganization. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> We also know thay we have a community of people who are passionate >>>>> about >>>>> >> IronRuby, and a secondary wave of people driven into action by the >>>>> >> events of the past day or so. It stands to reason, from work I've >>>>> done >>>>> >> in other communties, that one or two will end up being long term >>>>> >> participants because of the new awareness. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> That said, I don't think that what we should do right now is fork it, >>>>> >> since IronRuby relies heavily on the DLR which wouldn't be >>>>> controlled. >>>>> >> This is not to say that we take it off the table. Rather we need to >>>>> ask >>>>> >> ourselves what holes have now opened up that we need to fill: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> 1) Jimmy provided leadership and vision for the project. We've now >>>>> lost >>>>> >> that, and either Tomas will pick this up internally, or we will need >>>>> an >>>>> >> external person to run with the vision. Regardless, the person will >>>>> have >>>>> >> to interface with and understand the vision from the Microsoft side. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> 2) Tomas already mentioned needs like a CI and gatekeeper. I bet >>>>> there >>>>> >> are lots of other needs, and if this is truly a community-owned >>>>> >> movement, we need to engage with Tomas and the remaining team to >>>>> >> understand what else we're missing. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> 3) IronRuby has likely taken a huge blow of credibility from the >>>>> >> enterprise adoption side, because if it isn't supported by Microsoft >>>>> >> PSS, they will be unlikely to use it internally or in their products. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> All three of these are vital points that we need to think about as a >>>>> >> community. Someone is going to have to step up to take charge of this >>>>> - >>>>> >> and it's not going to come from the Mono side. Tomas may be willing >>>>> to >>>>> >> take charge as much as possible - no one has asked him, and that's a >>>>> >> shame. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> IronRuby has not had a heart attack which requires CPR. That means we >>>>> >> need to take a measured, levelheaded response as a community and work >>>>> to >>>>> >> understand how we can help and how we can respond in a way that makes >>>>> >> sense. We already know from Jimmy's tweets that he's planning an >>>>> email >>>>> >> for the group - how can we take advantage of the knowledge Jim and >>>>> Jimmy >>>>> >> have, and support the work Tomas is doing? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Finally, we may have a burst of energy right now, but no form of >>>>> >> sprinting is going to help solve this. This is not a "we have to take >>>>> >> action now before we lose the opportunity!" moment. The code is >>>>> there. >>>>> >> Many of the contributors are there, and know what is going on >>>>> >> internally. Let's collaborate and find a way to make this project a >>>>> real >>>>> >> success. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Cory >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > Ironruby-core mailing list >>>>> > Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>>>> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ironruby-core mailing list >>>>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ironruby-core mailing list >>>>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ironruby-core mailing list >>>>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ironruby-core mailing list >>>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ironruby-core mailing list >>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>> >>> >>
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