Let's not push Tomas or Jim to say anything; This is a big enough issue that I'm sure Microsoft's PR firms are working on this. Again, I suggest we be patient for the next week.
~Jimmy On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Will Green <w...@hotgazpacho.org> wrote: > Well, we've seen a few plus-ones on talking to Microsoft about their > intentions for IronRuby. > > Tomas or Jim, since you're both still on the inside, perhaps one of you > could speak, on behalf of the community, with someone at Microsoft who can > clarify for us what their intentions are? > > -- > Will Green > http://hotgazpacho.org/ > > > On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:42 AM, Jimmy Schementi <ji...@schementi.com>wrote: > >> Ah, after a nice restful weekend of casually looking at the psychotic >> twitter reactions, I think I owe this thread a little attention. >> >> First off, I appreciate the overwhelming support, and I think I speak on >> behalf of Jim and Tomas as well. Thank you for caring so much, and for all >> the personal best wishes. Also, I appreciate everyone who stepped in and >> "cooled" down the situation. Those who see opportunity in this are >> well-suited to help shape the future of the project. But enough with the >> mushy stuff ... >> >> The reality of open-source software is that corporate sponsorship and >> funding comes and goes, and it would appear the IronRuby project is just >> going through that normal cycle. I'm grateful to Microsoft for not only >> employing me, but funding IronRuby to the 1.1 release. Keep in mind that >> Microsoft has not officially said anything regarding IronRuby, even it seems >> my leaving Microsoft speaks volumes. So, let's just assume what we suspect >> to be true unless told otherwise. >> >> This is a monumental opportunity for you all, the IronRuby community, to >> rally around something Microsoft invested in, enough to a initial 1.0 >> release, and make it your own. However, there are two things we should ask >> Microsoft to commit to during this transition: >> >> 1. *Be clear about their intentions. *I *know *this will eventually >> happen, but I want to make it clear to all of you that this is the first >> step. >> 2. *Donate IronRuby to a non-Microsoft entity *(again, assuming they >> don't plan on continuing funding). Though IronRuby is licensed under an >> open-source license, it is copyright Microsoft. IronRuby.net is owned by >> Microsoft. The GitHub "ironruby" organization is managed by Microsoft. >> Etc, >> etc. If the intention is to cease funding IronRuby, then a non-profit >> foundation owning IronRuby, like CodePlex Foundation, would be ideal, so >> that we don't need to jointly own the copyright. There also is precedence >> in >> Microsoft for internal employees to donate to the CodePlex foundation, so >> Tomas and Jim can continue to contribute. >> >> In other words, a complete transition to non-Microsoft ownership. I'm not >> the only person with a voice here, so if there is anything else you'd like >> to see Microsoft do for a smooth transition, please speak up and let's >> discuss it. I'm hoping my leaving announcement will speed this process >> along, so assume we have little time to provide "demands". >> >> After these things happen, then we can all start figuring how to run the >> project, put infrastructure in place, and start figuring out what we need to >> accomplish to release IronRuby 1.2. Or, if none if this happens in the time >> we'd like, we can start FeRb (as @robconery essentially started to do =)). >> But let's try to be patient with IronRuby itself for now. I've also hinted >> at revisiting RubyCLR, but that will be a separate project (do contact me if >> you're interested). Also, feel free to still have the important >> conversations brought up in the previous messages; in no way am I suggesting >> people stop talking. >> >> Cory mentioned that my "leadership and vision" was lost. I think you're >> taking my job too seriously =P ... but joking aside, I just wanted to move >> back to New York and it was time to leave Microsoft, but not Ruby or >> IronRuby. So, for the foreseeable future, or unless someone else wants to >> step up, you can still count on me to be the face of IronRuby and write >> code. Also, my new job is in the .NET world still, so to stay sane I'll >> still want to work on IronRuby. =) >> >> This is a challenging and emotional time indeed. Again, I appreciate >> everyone's support and energy. Please keep the energy high, but directed. >> Continue discussing "why IronRuby". Work in your private fork, take shots at >> fixing bugs or getting more RubySpec tests passing; they'll eventually get >> integrated back. Continue blogging about how you're using IronRuby. Show the >> world that regardless of Microsoft's position, the community is what makes >> the project live. >> >> Now, discuss! >> >> ~Jimmy >> >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Jim Deville <jdevi...@microsoft.com>wrote: >> >>> At this point Jimmy might, but the only one that should be commiting >>> there directly is the automated account. Once we get official word from MS >>> on what will happen with everything, I’d be happy to discuss the fate of the >>> IronRuby organization on Github J >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* ironruby-core-boun...@rubyforge.org [mailto: >>> ironruby-core-boun...@rubyforge.org] *On Behalf Of *Orion Edwards >>> *Sent:* Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:07 PM >>> >>> *To:* ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [Ironruby-core] "Start spreading the news" >>> >>> >>> >>> 4. Rails on .NET >>> >>> >>> >>> I think asp.net mvc took a lot of the wind out of this particular >>> scenario, but rails is still literally *years* ahead of MVC in both maturity >>> and thinking. >>> >>> >>> >>> If we could get rails under ironruby easily deplorable to iis, I think >>> this would help a lot >>> >>> >>> >>> On question I'd REALLY like answered is this: >>> >>> >>> >>> Does Jimmy still have commit access to the main repos on github now that >>> he's left MS? Does anyone else outside MS have this? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, Orion >>> >>> On 9/08/2010, at 3:36 AM, Kevin Berridge <kevin.w.berri...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> To Cory's point about IronRuby's credibility in the Enterprise: >>> >>> >>> >>> I think its certainly true that if IronRuby is not a MS supported tool, >>> there will be shops that will not be able to use it. On the other hand, >>> there are still plenty of other shops that could use it, if only they >>> understand what they could use it for and how. >>> >>> >>> >>> To date, the story of what IronRuby is "for" has been rather weak. I >>> know it's a language, and so it's possibilities are just about endless, but >>> what are the main areas we think people can derive significant benefit from >>> using it? >>> >>> >>> >>> If IronRuby really does end up being primarily community driven, we need >>> to come up with a much better story around what it is for, and helping >>> people get started with using it for those things. This could help drive >>> adoption, which could in turn help drive contributors. >>> >>> >>> >>> Some examples of things IronRuby may be 'for": >>> >>> 1. Unit Testing ( >>> http://kevin-berridge.blogspot.com/2010/08/testing-c-with-rspec-and-ruby.html >>> ) >>> >>> 2. Embedded Scripting ( >>> http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2009/12/ironruby-rubyconf-2009-part-35.html >>> ) >>> >>> 3. Silverlight ( >>> http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2008/08/walk-through-silverlight-flickr-client.html >>> ) >>> >>> 4. ? >>> >>> >>> >>> Jimmy talked about #1 and #2 here: >>> >>> >>> http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2010/04/mix10-part-3-using-dynamic-languages-in.html >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Kevin Berridge >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Slavo Furman <sla...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I agree with Cory, too, but on the other hand it would be very helpful >>> if Microsoft (I mean someone who can speak for Microsoft) clearly say >>> what are they intentions with IronRuby (and maybe IronPython, too) for >>> the future. >>> >>> Are they "releasing IronRuby to the community"? Is Microsoft like to >>> (officially) participate in future in IronRuby development? If so, in >>> what way? As a project owner? And so on... >>> >>> Only knowing in what situation we really are we can make our decisions >>> about what to do. >>> >>> More clarity will also help with using the technology, for example, I >>> am considering using IronRuby for one project and now I do not know >>> what to expect from future (questions like - will development of >>> IronRuby continue, what about Silverlight and Azure support, what >>> about v1.9 compatibility, ...) and it is now became problematic to >>> make some of decisions. >>> >>> thanks, >>> Slavo. >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Eduardo Blumenfeld <li...@ruby-forum.com> >>> wrote: >>> > I agree 100% with Cory, we just need to calm down, regroup, give >>> support >>> > to Tomas, make our opinions heard and continue using the technology >>> that >>> > helps us become way more productive in our jobs. >>> > >>> > On the other hand Jimmy will still be around, he just moved to another >>> > job. >>> > >>> > Regards, >>> > >>> > Eduardo Blumenfeld >>> > >>> > Cory Foy wrote: >>> >> Ok, I like to propose a pause in action. >>> >> >>> >> Here's what we know. Jimmy has moved on, as has Jim. Tomas is the main >>> >> person left, and from the emails we've received, he's only working on >>> it >>> >> part-time. I don't know the politics of this specific org, but being >>> an >>> >> ex-softie I do have an idea, and that hunch is that the politics that >>> >> caused the reshuffle were not a conspiracy theory against IronRuby, >>> but >>> >> just normal organization dysfunction and quarterly reorganization. >>> >> >>> >> We also know thay we have a community of people who are passionate >>> about >>> >> IronRuby, and a secondary wave of people driven into action by the >>> >> events of the past day or so. It stands to reason, from work I've done >>> >> in other communties, that one or two will end up being long term >>> >> participants because of the new awareness. >>> >> >>> >> That said, I don't think that what we should do right now is fork it, >>> >> since IronRuby relies heavily on the DLR which wouldn't be controlled. >>> >> This is not to say that we take it off the table. Rather we need to >>> ask >>> >> ourselves what holes have now opened up that we need to fill: >>> >> >>> >> 1) Jimmy provided leadership and vision for the project. We've now >>> lost >>> >> that, and either Tomas will pick this up internally, or we will need >>> an >>> >> external person to run with the vision. Regardless, the person will >>> have >>> >> to interface with and understand the vision from the Microsoft side. >>> >> >>> >> 2) Tomas already mentioned needs like a CI and gatekeeper. I bet there >>> >> are lots of other needs, and if this is truly a community-owned >>> >> movement, we need to engage with Tomas and the remaining team to >>> >> understand what else we're missing. >>> >> >>> >> 3) IronRuby has likely taken a huge blow of credibility from the >>> >> enterprise adoption side, because if it isn't supported by Microsoft >>> >> PSS, they will be unlikely to use it internally or in their products. >>> >> >>> >> All three of these are vital points that we need to think about as a >>> >> community. Someone is going to have to step up to take charge of this >>> - >>> >> and it's not going to come from the Mono side. Tomas may be willing to >>> >> take charge as much as possible - no one has asked him, and that's a >>> >> shame. >>> >> >>> >> IronRuby has not had a heart attack which requires CPR. That means we >>> >> need to take a measured, levelheaded response as a community and work >>> to >>> >> understand how we can help and how we can respond in a way that makes >>> >> sense. We already know from Jimmy's tweets that he's planning an email >>> >> for the group - how can we take advantage of the knowledge Jim and >>> Jimmy >>> >> have, and support the work Tomas is doing? >>> >> >>> >> Finally, we may have a burst of energy right now, but no form of >>> >> sprinting is going to help solve this. This is not a "we have to take >>> >> action now before we lose the opportunity!" moment. The code is there. >>> >> Many of the contributors are there, and know what is going on >>> >> internally. Let's collaborate and find a way to make this project a >>> real >>> >> success. >>> >> >>> >> Cory >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Ironruby-core mailing list >>> > Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ironruby-core mailing list >>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ironruby-core mailing list >>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ironruby-core mailing list >>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ironruby-core mailing list >> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Ironruby-core mailing list > Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core > >
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