Best. Fucking. Decision. Ever. Time for IronRuby to rock and roll. Let's do this. \m/
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:38 PM, Jimmy Schementi <ji...@schementi.com> wrote: > In-case anyone is living under a rock, this thread has just become much more > relevant; here's why: > blogs.msdn.com/b/jasonz/archive/2010/10/21/new-components-and-contributors-for-ironpython-and-ironruby.aspx > In short, Miguel de Icaza and I will be helping the community guide > IronRuby, while us plus Michael Foord and Jeff Hardy will help guide > IronPython. Also, IronRuby 1.1.1 has been released, which finally includes > IronRuby tools for Visual Studio and the latest work towards 1.9 > compatibility. I believe Tomas will send mail about the specifics shortly. > ~Jimmy > > > On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Jimmy Schementi <ji...@schementi.com> > wrote: >> >> Let's not push Tomas or Jim to say anything; This is a big enough issue >> that I'm sure Microsoft's PR firms are working on this. Again, I suggest we >> be patient for the next week. >> >> ~Jimmy >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Will Green <w...@hotgazpacho.org> wrote: >>> >>> Well, we've seen a few plus-ones on talking to Microsoft about their >>> intentions for IronRuby. >>> Tomas or Jim, since you're both still on the inside, perhaps one of you >>> could speak, on behalf of the community, with someone at Microsoft who can >>> clarify for us what their intentions are? >>> -- >>> Will Green >>> http://hotgazpacho.org/ >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:42 AM, Jimmy Schementi <ji...@schementi.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Ah, after a nice restful weekend of casually looking at the psychotic >>>> twitter reactions, I think I owe this thread a little attention. >>>> First off, I appreciate the overwhelming support, and I think I speak on >>>> behalf of Jim and Tomas as well. Thank you for caring so much, and for all >>>> the personal best wishes. Also, I appreciate everyone who stepped in and >>>> "cooled" down the situation. Those who see opportunity in this are >>>> well-suited to help shape the future of the project. But enough with the >>>> mushy stuff ... >>>> The reality of open-source software is that corporate sponsorship and >>>> funding comes and goes, and it would appear the IronRuby project is just >>>> going through that normal cycle. I'm grateful to Microsoft for not only >>>> employing me, but funding IronRuby to the 1.1 release. Keep in mind that >>>> Microsoft has not officially said anything regarding IronRuby, even it >>>> seems >>>> my leaving Microsoft speaks volumes. So, let's just assume what we suspect >>>> to be true unless told otherwise. >>>> This is a monumental opportunity for you all, the IronRuby community, to >>>> rally around something Microsoft invested in, enough to a initial 1.0 >>>> release, and make it your own. However, there are two things we should ask >>>> Microsoft to commit to during this transition: >>>> >>>> Be clear about their intentions. I know this will eventually happen, but >>>> I want to make it clear to all of you that this is the first step. >>>> Donate IronRuby to a non-Microsoft entity (again, assuming they don't >>>> plan on continuing funding). Though IronRuby is licensed under an >>>> open-source license, it is copyright Microsoft. IronRuby.net is owned by >>>> Microsoft. The GitHub "ironruby" organization is managed by Microsoft. Etc, >>>> etc. If the intention is to cease funding IronRuby, then a non-profit >>>> foundation owning IronRuby, like CodePlex Foundation, would be ideal, so >>>> that we don't need to jointly own the copyright. There also is precedence >>>> in >>>> Microsoft for internal employees to donate to the CodePlex foundation, so >>>> Tomas and Jim can continue to contribute. >>>> >>>> In other words, a complete transition to non-Microsoft ownership. I'm >>>> not the only person with a voice here, so if there is anything else you'd >>>> like to see Microsoft do for a smooth transition, please speak up and let's >>>> discuss it. I'm hoping my leaving announcement will speed this process >>>> along, so assume we have little time to provide "demands". >>>> After these things happen, then we can all start figuring how to run the >>>> project, put infrastructure in place, and start figuring out what we need >>>> to >>>> accomplish to release IronRuby 1.2. Or, if none if this happens in the time >>>> we'd like, we can start FeRb (as @robconery essentially started to do =)). >>>> But let's try to be patient with IronRuby itself for now. I've also hinted >>>> at revisiting RubyCLR, but that will be a separate project (do contact me >>>> if >>>> you're interested). Also, feel free to still have the important >>>> conversations brought up in the previous messages; in no way am I >>>> suggesting >>>> people stop talking. >>>> Cory mentioned that my "leadership and vision" was lost. I think you're >>>> taking my job too seriously =P ... but joking aside, I just wanted to move >>>> back to New York and it was time to leave Microsoft, but not Ruby or >>>> IronRuby. So, for the foreseeable future, or unless someone else wants to >>>> step up, you can still count on me to be the face of IronRuby and write >>>> code. Also, my new job is in the .NET world still, so to stay sane I'll >>>> still want to work on IronRuby. =) >>>> >>>> This is a challenging and emotional time indeed. Again, I appreciate >>>> everyone's support and energy. Please keep the energy high, but directed. >>>> Continue discussing "why IronRuby". Work in your private fork, take shots >>>> at >>>> fixing bugs or getting more RubySpec tests passing; they'll eventually get >>>> integrated back. Continue blogging about how you're using IronRuby. Show >>>> the >>>> world that regardless of Microsoft's position, the community is what makes >>>> the project live. >>>> Now, discuss! >>>> ~Jimmy >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Jim Deville <jdevi...@microsoft.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> At this point Jimmy might, but the only one that should be commiting >>>>> there directly is the automated account. Once we get official word from MS >>>>> on what will happen with everything, I’d be happy to discuss the fate of >>>>> the >>>>> IronRuby organization on Github J >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: ironruby-core-boun...@rubyforge.org >>>>> [mailto:ironruby-core-boun...@rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Orion Edwards >>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:07 PM >>>>> >>>>> To: ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [Ironruby-core] "Start spreading the news" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 4. Rails on .NET >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think asp.net mvc took a lot of the wind out of this particular >>>>> scenario, but rails is still literally *years* ahead of MVC in both >>>>> maturity >>>>> and thinking. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If we could get rails under ironruby easily deplorable to iis, I think >>>>> this would help a lot >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On question I'd REALLY like answered is this: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Does Jimmy still have commit access to the main repos on github now >>>>> that he's left MS? Does anyone else outside MS have this? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, Orion >>>>> >>>>> On 9/08/2010, at 3:36 AM, Kevin Berridge <kevin.w.berri...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> To Cory's point about IronRuby's credibility in the Enterprise: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think its certainly true that if IronRuby is not a MS supported tool, >>>>> there will be shops that will not be able to use it. On the other hand, >>>>> there are still plenty of other shops that could use it, if only they >>>>> understand what they could use it for and how. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To date, the story of what IronRuby is "for" has been rather weak. I >>>>> know it's a language, and so it's possibilities are just about endless, >>>>> but >>>>> what are the main areas we think people can derive significant benefit >>>>> from >>>>> using it? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If IronRuby really does end up being primarily community driven, we >>>>> need to come up with a much better story around what it is for, and >>>>> helping >>>>> people get started with using it for those things. This could help drive >>>>> adoption, which could in turn help drive contributors. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Some examples of things IronRuby may be 'for": >>>>> >>>>> 1. Unit Testing >>>>> (http://kevin-berridge.blogspot.com/2010/08/testing-c-with-rspec-and-ruby.html) >>>>> >>>>> 2. Embedded Scripting >>>>> (http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2009/12/ironruby-rubyconf-2009-part-35.html) >>>>> >>>>> 3. Silverlight >>>>> (http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2008/08/walk-through-silverlight-flickr-client.html) >>>>> >>>>> 4. ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jimmy talked about #1 and #2 here: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2010/04/mix10-part-3-using-dynamic-languages-in.html >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Kevin Berridge >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Slavo Furman <sla...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I agree with Cory, too, but on the other hand it would be very helpful >>>>> if Microsoft (I mean someone who can speak for Microsoft) clearly say >>>>> what are they intentions with IronRuby (and maybe IronPython, too) for >>>>> the future. >>>>> >>>>> Are they "releasing IronRuby to the community"? Is Microsoft like to >>>>> (officially) participate in future in IronRuby development? If so, in >>>>> what way? As a project owner? And so on... >>>>> >>>>> Only knowing in what situation we really are we can make our decisions >>>>> about what to do. >>>>> >>>>> More clarity will also help with using the technology, for example, I >>>>> am considering using IronRuby for one project and now I do not know >>>>> what to expect from future (questions like - will development of >>>>> IronRuby continue, what about Silverlight and Azure support, what >>>>> about v1.9 compatibility, ...) and it is now became problematic to >>>>> make some of decisions. >>>>> >>>>> thanks, >>>>> Slavo. >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Eduardo Blumenfeld >>>>> <li...@ruby-forum.com> wrote: >>>>> > I agree 100% with Cory, we just need to calm down, regroup, give >>>>> > support >>>>> > to Tomas, make our opinions heard and continue using the technology >>>>> > that >>>>> > helps us become way more productive in our jobs. >>>>> > >>>>> > On the other hand Jimmy will still be around, he just moved to >>>>> > another >>>>> > job. >>>>> > >>>>> > Regards, >>>>> > >>>>> > Eduardo Blumenfeld >>>>> > >>>>> > Cory Foy wrote: >>>>> >> Ok, I like to propose a pause in action. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Here's what we know. Jimmy has moved on, as has Jim. Tomas is the >>>>> >> main >>>>> >> person left, and from the emails we've received, he's only working >>>>> >> on it >>>>> >> part-time. I don't know the politics of this specific org, but being >>>>> >> an >>>>> >> ex-softie I do have an idea, and that hunch is that the politics >>>>> >> that >>>>> >> caused the reshuffle were not a conspiracy theory against IronRuby, >>>>> >> but >>>>> >> just normal organization dysfunction and quarterly reorganization. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> We also know thay we have a community of people who are passionate >>>>> >> about >>>>> >> IronRuby, and a secondary wave of people driven into action by the >>>>> >> events of the past day or so. It stands to reason, from work I've >>>>> >> done >>>>> >> in other communties, that one or two will end up being long term >>>>> >> participants because of the new awareness. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> That said, I don't think that what we should do right now is fork >>>>> >> it, >>>>> >> since IronRuby relies heavily on the DLR which wouldn't be >>>>> >> controlled. >>>>> >> This is not to say that we take it off the table. Rather we need to >>>>> >> ask >>>>> >> ourselves what holes have now opened up that we need to fill: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> 1) Jimmy provided leadership and vision for the project. We've now >>>>> >> lost >>>>> >> that, and either Tomas will pick this up internally, or we will need >>>>> >> an >>>>> >> external person to run with the vision. Regardless, the person will >>>>> >> have >>>>> >> to interface with and understand the vision from the Microsoft side. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> 2) Tomas already mentioned needs like a CI and gatekeeper. I bet >>>>> >> there >>>>> >> are lots of other needs, and if this is truly a community-owned >>>>> >> movement, we need to engage with Tomas and the remaining team to >>>>> >> understand what else we're missing. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> 3) IronRuby has likely taken a huge blow of credibility from the >>>>> >> enterprise adoption side, because if it isn't supported by Microsoft >>>>> >> PSS, they will be unlikely to use it internally or in their >>>>> >> products. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> All three of these are vital points that we need to think about as a >>>>> >> community. Someone is going to have to step up to take charge of >>>>> >> this - >>>>> >> and it's not going to come from the Mono side. Tomas may be willing >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> take charge as much as possible - no one has asked him, and that's a >>>>> >> shame. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> IronRuby has not had a heart attack which requires CPR. That means >>>>> >> we >>>>> >> need to take a measured, levelheaded response as a community and >>>>> >> work to >>>>> >> understand how we can help and how we can respond in a way that >>>>> >> makes >>>>> >> sense. We already know from Jimmy's tweets that he's planning an >>>>> >> email >>>>> >> for the group - how can we take advantage of the knowledge Jim and >>>>> >> Jimmy >>>>> >> have, and support the work Tomas is doing? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Finally, we may have a burst of energy right now, but no form of >>>>> >> sprinting is going to help solve this. This is not a "we have to >>>>> >> take >>>>> >> action now before we lose the opportunity!" moment. The code is >>>>> >> there. >>>>> >> Many of the contributors are there, and know what is going on >>>>> >> internally. Let's collaborate and find a way to make this project a >>>>> >> real >>>>> >> success. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Cory >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > Ironruby-core mailing list >>>>> > Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>>>> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ironruby-core mailing list >>>>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ironruby-core mailing list >>>>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ironruby-core mailing list >>>>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ironruby-core mailing list >>>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ironruby-core mailing list >>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Ironruby-core mailing list > Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core > > -- Michael Letterle IronRuby MVP http://blog.prokrams.com _______________________________________________ Ironruby-core mailing list Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core
