If you're looking for better Enterprise "adoption", I would say the lack of Visual Studio integration is a big sticking point. Perhaps you are implying that when you talk about Microsoft support.
I built a few minor apps in IronRuby with Winforms as the GUI layer. It worked, but it was not as "easy" as it was with C#. On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Michael Letterle <michael.lette...@gmail.com > wrote: > My biggest concern at this point is that Microsoft make clear what > their intentions are with regards to the IronRuby project, the state > of limbo that exists in untenable. > > One of the concerns I hear often is how the DLR is handled as well... > is that pretty stable at this point, I was under that impression. > > The saddest thing about this whole episode is really how unsurprising > it is, at least for those that have been paying attention for a while. > > On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:42 AM, Jimmy Schementi <ji...@schementi.com> > wrote: > > Ah, after a nice restful weekend of casually looking at the psychotic > > twitter reactions, I think I owe this thread a little attention. > > First off, I appreciate the overwhelming support, and I think I speak on > > behalf of Jim and Tomas as well. Thank you for caring so much, and for > all > > the personal best wishes. Also, I appreciate everyone who stepped in and > > "cooled" down the situation. Those who see opportunity in this are > > well-suited to help shape the future of the project. But enough with the > > mushy stuff ... > > The reality of open-source software is that corporate sponsorship and > > funding comes and goes, and it would appear the IronRuby project is just > > going through that normal cycle. I'm grateful to Microsoft for not only > > employing me, but funding IronRuby to the 1.1 release. Keep in mind that > > Microsoft has not officially said anything regarding IronRuby, even it > seems > > my leaving Microsoft speaks volumes. So, let's just assume what we > suspect > > to be true unless told otherwise. > > This is a monumental opportunity for you all, the IronRuby community, to > > rally around something Microsoft invested in, enough to a initial 1.0 > > release, and make it your own. However, there are two things we should > ask > > Microsoft to commit to during this transition: > > > > Be clear about their intentions. I know this will eventually happen, but > I > > want to make it clear to all of you that this is the first step. > > Donate IronRuby to a non-Microsoft entity (again, assuming they don't > plan > > on continuing funding). Though IronRuby is licensed under an open-source > > license, it is copyright Microsoft. IronRuby.net is owned by Microsoft. > The > > GitHub "ironruby" organization is managed by Microsoft. Etc, etc. If the > > intention is to cease funding IronRuby, then a non-profit foundation > owning > > IronRuby, like CodePlex Foundation, would be ideal, so that we don't need > to > > jointly own the copyright. There also is precedence in Microsoft for > > internal employees to donate to the CodePlex foundation, so Tomas and Jim > > can continue to contribute. > > > > In other words, a complete transition to non-Microsoft ownership. I'm not > > the only person with a voice here, so if there is anything else you'd > like > > to see Microsoft do for a smooth transition, please speak up and let's > > discuss it. I'm hoping my leaving announcement will speed this process > > along, so assume we have little time to provide "demands". > > After these things happen, then we can all start figuring how to run the > > project, put infrastructure in place, and start figuring out what we need > to > > accomplish to release IronRuby 1.2. Or, if none if this happens in the > time > > we'd like, we can start FeRb (as @robconery essentially started to do > =)). > > But let's try to be patient with IronRuby itself for now. I've also > hinted > > at revisiting RubyCLR, but that will be a separate project (do contact me > if > > you're interested). Also, feel free to still have the important > > conversations brought up in the previous messages; in no way am I > suggesting > > people stop talking. > > Cory mentioned that my "leadership and vision" was lost. I think you're > > taking my job too seriously =P ... but joking aside, I just wanted to > move > > back to New York and it was time to leave Microsoft, but not Ruby or > > IronRuby. So, for the foreseeable future, or unless someone else wants to > > step up, you can still count on me to be the face of IronRuby and write > > code. Also, my new job is in the .NET world still, so to stay sane I'll > > still want to work on IronRuby. =) > > > > This is a challenging and emotional time indeed. Again, I appreciate > > everyone's support and energy. Please keep the energy high, but directed. > > Continue discussing "why IronRuby". Work in your private fork, take shots > at > > fixing bugs or getting more RubySpec tests passing; they'll eventually > get > > integrated back. Continue blogging about how you're using IronRuby. Show > the > > world that regardless of Microsoft's position, the community is what > makes > > the project live. > > Now, discuss! > > ~Jimmy > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Jim Deville <jdevi...@microsoft.com> > wrote: > >> > >> At this point Jimmy might, but the only one that should be commiting > there > >> directly is the automated account. Once we get official word from MS on > what > >> will happen with everything, I’d be happy to discuss the fate of the > >> IronRuby organization on Github J > >> > >> > >> > >> From: ironruby-core-boun...@rubyforge.org > >> [mailto:ironruby-core-boun...@rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Orion Edwards > >> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:07 PM > >> > >> To: ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > >> Subject: Re: [Ironruby-core] "Start spreading the news" > >> > >> > >> > >> 4. Rails on .NET > >> > >> > >> > >> I think asp.net mvc took a lot of the wind out of this particular > >> scenario, but rails is still literally *years* ahead of MVC in both > maturity > >> and thinking. > >> > >> > >> > >> If we could get rails under ironruby easily deplorable to iis, I think > >> this would help a lot > >> > >> > >> > >> On question I'd REALLY like answered is this: > >> > >> > >> > >> Does Jimmy still have commit access to the main repos on github now that > >> he's left MS? Does anyone else outside MS have this? > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks, Orion > >> > >> On 9/08/2010, at 3:36 AM, Kevin Berridge <kevin.w.berri...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> To Cory's point about IronRuby's credibility in the Enterprise: > >> > >> > >> > >> I think its certainly true that if IronRuby is not a MS supported tool, > >> there will be shops that will not be able to use it. On the other hand, > >> there are still plenty of other shops that could use it, if only they > >> understand what they could use it for and how. > >> > >> > >> > >> To date, the story of what IronRuby is "for" has been rather weak. I > know > >> it's a language, and so it's possibilities are just about endless, but > what > >> are the main areas we think people can derive significant benefit from > using > >> it? > >> > >> > >> > >> If IronRuby really does end up being primarily community driven, we need > >> to come up with a much better story around what it is for, and helping > >> people get started with using it for those things. This could help > drive > >> adoption, which could in turn help drive contributors. > >> > >> > >> > >> Some examples of things IronRuby may be 'for": > >> > >> 1. Unit Testing > >> ( > http://kevin-berridge.blogspot.com/2010/08/testing-c-with-rspec-and-ruby.html > ) > >> > >> 2. Embedded Scripting > >> ( > http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2009/12/ironruby-rubyconf-2009-part-35.html > ) > >> > >> 3. Silverlight > >> ( > http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2008/08/walk-through-silverlight-flickr-client.html > ) > >> > >> 4. ? > >> > >> > >> > >> Jimmy talked about #1 and #2 here: > >> > >> > >> > http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2010/04/mix10-part-3-using-dynamic-languages-in.html > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Kevin Berridge > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Slavo Furman <sla...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> I agree with Cory, too, but on the other hand it would be very helpful > >> if Microsoft (I mean someone who can speak for Microsoft) clearly say > >> what are they intentions with IronRuby (and maybe IronPython, too) for > >> the future. > >> > >> Are they "releasing IronRuby to the community"? Is Microsoft like to > >> (officially) participate in future in IronRuby development? If so, in > >> what way? As a project owner? And so on... > >> > >> Only knowing in what situation we really are we can make our decisions > >> about what to do. > >> > >> More clarity will also help with using the technology, for example, I > >> am considering using IronRuby for one project and now I do not know > >> what to expect from future (questions like - will development of > >> IronRuby continue, what about Silverlight and Azure support, what > >> about v1.9 compatibility, ...) and it is now became problematic to > >> make some of decisions. > >> > >> thanks, > >> Slavo. > >> > >> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Eduardo Blumenfeld < > li...@ruby-forum.com> > >> wrote: > >> > I agree 100% with Cory, we just need to calm down, regroup, give > support > >> > to Tomas, make our opinions heard and continue using the technology > that > >> > helps us become way more productive in our jobs. > >> > > >> > On the other hand Jimmy will still be around, he just moved to another > >> > job. > >> > > >> > Regards, > >> > > >> > Eduardo Blumenfeld > >> > > >> > Cory Foy wrote: > >> >> Ok, I like to propose a pause in action. > >> >> > >> >> Here's what we know. Jimmy has moved on, as has Jim. Tomas is the > main > >> >> person left, and from the emails we've received, he's only working on > >> >> it > >> >> part-time. I don't know the politics of this specific org, but being > an > >> >> ex-softie I do have an idea, and that hunch is that the politics that > >> >> caused the reshuffle were not a conspiracy theory against IronRuby, > but > >> >> just normal organization dysfunction and quarterly reorganization. > >> >> > >> >> We also know thay we have a community of people who are passionate > >> >> about > >> >> IronRuby, and a secondary wave of people driven into action by the > >> >> events of the past day or so. It stands to reason, from work I've > done > >> >> in other communties, that one or two will end up being long term > >> >> participants because of the new awareness. > >> >> > >> >> That said, I don't think that what we should do right now is fork it, > >> >> since IronRuby relies heavily on the DLR which wouldn't be > controlled. > >> >> This is not to say that we take it off the table. Rather we need to > ask > >> >> ourselves what holes have now opened up that we need to fill: > >> >> > >> >> 1) Jimmy provided leadership and vision for the project. We've now > lost > >> >> that, and either Tomas will pick this up internally, or we will need > an > >> >> external person to run with the vision. Regardless, the person will > >> >> have > >> >> to interface with and understand the vision from the Microsoft side. > >> >> > >> >> 2) Tomas already mentioned needs like a CI and gatekeeper. I bet > there > >> >> are lots of other needs, and if this is truly a community-owned > >> >> movement, we need to engage with Tomas and the remaining team to > >> >> understand what else we're missing. > >> >> > >> >> 3) IronRuby has likely taken a huge blow of credibility from the > >> >> enterprise adoption side, because if it isn't supported by Microsoft > >> >> PSS, they will be unlikely to use it internally or in their products. > >> >> > >> >> All three of these are vital points that we need to think about as a > >> >> community. Someone is going to have to step up to take charge of this > - > >> >> and it's not going to come from the Mono side. Tomas may be willing > to > >> >> take charge as much as possible - no one has asked him, and that's a > >> >> shame. > >> >> > >> >> IronRuby has not had a heart attack which requires CPR. That means we > >> >> need to take a measured, levelheaded response as a community and work > >> >> to > >> >> understand how we can help and how we can respond in a way that makes > >> >> sense. We already know from Jimmy's tweets that he's planning an > email > >> >> for the group - how can we take advantage of the knowledge Jim and > >> >> Jimmy > >> >> have, and support the work Tomas is doing? > >> >> > >> >> Finally, we may have a burst of energy right now, but no form of > >> >> sprinting is going to help solve this. This is not a "we have to take > >> >> action now before we lose the opportunity!" moment. The code is > there. > >> >> Many of the contributors are there, and know what is going on > >> >> internally. Let's collaborate and find a way to make this project a > >> >> real > >> >> success. > >> >> > >> >> Cory > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Ironruby-core mailing list > >> > Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > >> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ironruby-core mailing list > >> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > >> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ironruby-core mailing list > >> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > >> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ironruby-core mailing list > >> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > >> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ironruby-core mailing list > > Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core > > > > > > > > -- > Michael Letterle > IronRuby MVP > http://blog.prokrams.com > _______________________________________________ > Ironruby-core mailing list > Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >
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