:) On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Michael Letterle < michael.lette...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Best. Fucking. Decision. Ever. > > Time for IronRuby to rock and roll. Let's do this. \m/ > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:38 PM, Jimmy Schementi <ji...@schementi.com> > wrote: > > In-case anyone is living under a rock, this thread has just become much > more > > relevant; here's why: > > > blogs.msdn.com/b/jasonz/archive/2010/10/21/new-components-and-contributors-for-ironpython-and-ironruby.aspx > > In short, Miguel de Icaza and I will be helping the community guide > > IronRuby, while us plus Michael Foord and Jeff Hardy will help guide > > IronPython. Also, IronRuby 1.1.1 has been released, which finally > includes > > IronRuby tools for Visual Studio and the latest work towards 1.9 > > compatibility. I believe Tomas will send mail about the specifics > shortly. > > ~Jimmy > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Jimmy Schementi <ji...@schementi.com> > > wrote: > >> > >> Let's not push Tomas or Jim to say anything; This is a big enough issue > >> that I'm sure Microsoft's PR firms are working on this. Again, I suggest > we > >> be patient for the next week. > >> > >> ~Jimmy > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Will Green <w...@hotgazpacho.org> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Well, we've seen a few plus-ones on talking to Microsoft about their > >>> intentions for IronRuby. > >>> Tomas or Jim, since you're both still on the inside, perhaps one of you > >>> could speak, on behalf of the community, with someone at Microsoft who > can > >>> clarify for us what their intentions are? > >>> -- > >>> Will Green > >>> http://hotgazpacho.org/ > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:42 AM, Jimmy Schementi <ji...@schementi.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Ah, after a nice restful weekend of casually looking at the psychotic > >>>> twitter reactions, I think I owe this thread a little attention. > >>>> First off, I appreciate the overwhelming support, and I think I speak > on > >>>> behalf of Jim and Tomas as well. Thank you for caring so much, and for > all > >>>> the personal best wishes. Also, I appreciate everyone who stepped in > and > >>>> "cooled" down the situation. Those who see opportunity in this are > >>>> well-suited to help shape the future of the project. But enough with > the > >>>> mushy stuff ... > >>>> The reality of open-source software is that corporate sponsorship and > >>>> funding comes and goes, and it would appear the IronRuby project is > just > >>>> going through that normal cycle. I'm grateful to Microsoft for not > only > >>>> employing me, but funding IronRuby to the 1.1 release. Keep in mind > that > >>>> Microsoft has not officially said anything regarding IronRuby, even it > seems > >>>> my leaving Microsoft speaks volumes. So, let's just assume what we > suspect > >>>> to be true unless told otherwise. > >>>> This is a monumental opportunity for you all, the IronRuby community, > to > >>>> rally around something Microsoft invested in, enough to a initial 1.0 > >>>> release, and make it your own. However, there are two things we should > ask > >>>> Microsoft to commit to during this transition: > >>>> > >>>> Be clear about their intentions. I know this will eventually happen, > but > >>>> I want to make it clear to all of you that this is the first step. > >>>> Donate IronRuby to a non-Microsoft entity (again, assuming they don't > >>>> plan on continuing funding). Though IronRuby is licensed under an > >>>> open-source license, it is copyright Microsoft. IronRuby.net is owned > by > >>>> Microsoft. The GitHub "ironruby" organization is managed by Microsoft. > Etc, > >>>> etc. If the intention is to cease funding IronRuby, then a non-profit > >>>> foundation owning IronRuby, like CodePlex Foundation, would be ideal, > so > >>>> that we don't need to jointly own the copyright. There also is > precedence in > >>>> Microsoft for internal employees to donate to the CodePlex foundation, > so > >>>> Tomas and Jim can continue to contribute. > >>>> > >>>> In other words, a complete transition to non-Microsoft ownership. I'm > >>>> not the only person with a voice here, so if there is anything else > you'd > >>>> like to see Microsoft do for a smooth transition, please speak up and > let's > >>>> discuss it. I'm hoping my leaving announcement will speed this process > >>>> along, so assume we have little time to provide "demands". > >>>> After these things happen, then we can all start figuring how to run > the > >>>> project, put infrastructure in place, and start figuring out what we > need to > >>>> accomplish to release IronRuby 1.2. Or, if none if this happens in the > time > >>>> we'd like, we can start FeRb (as @robconery essentially started to do > =)). > >>>> But let's try to be patient with IronRuby itself for now. I've also > hinted > >>>> at revisiting RubyCLR, but that will be a separate project (do contact > me if > >>>> you're interested). Also, feel free to still have the important > >>>> conversations brought up in the previous messages; in no way am I > suggesting > >>>> people stop talking. > >>>> Cory mentioned that my "leadership and vision" was lost. I think > you're > >>>> taking my job too seriously =P ... but joking aside, I just wanted to > move > >>>> back to New York and it was time to leave Microsoft, but not Ruby or > >>>> IronRuby. So, for the foreseeable future, or unless someone else wants > to > >>>> step up, you can still count on me to be the face of IronRuby and > write > >>>> code. Also, my new job is in the .NET world still, so to stay sane > I'll > >>>> still want to work on IronRuby. =) > >>>> > >>>> This is a challenging and emotional time indeed. Again, I appreciate > >>>> everyone's support and energy. Please keep the energy high, but > directed. > >>>> Continue discussing "why IronRuby". Work in your private fork, take > shots at > >>>> fixing bugs or getting more RubySpec tests passing; they'll eventually > get > >>>> integrated back. Continue blogging about how you're using IronRuby. > Show the > >>>> world that regardless of Microsoft's position, the community is what > makes > >>>> the project live. > >>>> Now, discuss! > >>>> ~Jimmy > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Jim Deville <jdevi...@microsoft.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> At this point Jimmy might, but the only one that should be commiting > >>>>> there directly is the automated account. Once we get official word > from MS > >>>>> on what will happen with everything, I’d be happy to discuss the fate > of the > >>>>> IronRuby organization on Github J > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> From: ironruby-core-boun...@rubyforge.org > >>>>> [mailto:ironruby-core-boun...@rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Orion > Edwards > >>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:07 PM > >>>>> > >>>>> To: ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Ironruby-core] "Start spreading the news" > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> 4. Rails on .NET > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I think asp.net mvc took a lot of the wind out of this particular > >>>>> scenario, but rails is still literally *years* ahead of MVC in both > maturity > >>>>> and thinking. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> If we could get rails under ironruby easily deplorable to iis, I > think > >>>>> this would help a lot > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On question I'd REALLY like answered is this: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Does Jimmy still have commit access to the main repos on github now > >>>>> that he's left MS? Does anyone else outside MS have this? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, Orion > >>>>> > >>>>> On 9/08/2010, at 3:36 AM, Kevin Berridge <kevin.w.berri...@gmail.com > > > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> To Cory's point about IronRuby's credibility in the Enterprise: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I think its certainly true that if IronRuby is not a MS supported > tool, > >>>>> there will be shops that will not be able to use it. On the other > hand, > >>>>> there are still plenty of other shops that could use it, if only they > >>>>> understand what they could use it for and how. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> To date, the story of what IronRuby is "for" has been rather weak. I > >>>>> know it's a language, and so it's possibilities are just about > endless, but > >>>>> what are the main areas we think people can derive significant > benefit from > >>>>> using it? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> If IronRuby really does end up being primarily community driven, we > >>>>> need to come up with a much better story around what it is for, and > helping > >>>>> people get started with using it for those things. This could help > drive > >>>>> adoption, which could in turn help drive contributors. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Some examples of things IronRuby may be 'for": > >>>>> > >>>>> 1. Unit Testing > >>>>> ( > http://kevin-berridge.blogspot.com/2010/08/testing-c-with-rspec-and-ruby.html > ) > >>>>> > >>>>> 2. Embedded Scripting > >>>>> ( > http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2009/12/ironruby-rubyconf-2009-part-35.html > ) > >>>>> > >>>>> 3. Silverlight > >>>>> ( > http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2008/08/walk-through-silverlight-flickr-client.html > ) > >>>>> > >>>>> 4. ? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Jimmy talked about #1 and #2 here: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2010/04/mix10-part-3-using-dynamic-languages-in.html > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Kevin Berridge > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Slavo Furman <sla...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I agree with Cory, too, but on the other hand it would be very > helpful > >>>>> if Microsoft (I mean someone who can speak for Microsoft) clearly say > >>>>> what are they intentions with IronRuby (and maybe IronPython, too) > for > >>>>> the future. > >>>>> > >>>>> Are they "releasing IronRuby to the community"? Is Microsoft like to > >>>>> (officially) participate in future in IronRuby development? If so, in > >>>>> what way? As a project owner? And so on... > >>>>> > >>>>> Only knowing in what situation we really are we can make our > decisions > >>>>> about what to do. > >>>>> > >>>>> More clarity will also help with using the technology, for example, I > >>>>> am considering using IronRuby for one project and now I do not know > >>>>> what to expect from future (questions like - will development of > >>>>> IronRuby continue, what about Silverlight and Azure support, what > >>>>> about v1.9 compatibility, ...) and it is now became problematic to > >>>>> make some of decisions. > >>>>> > >>>>> thanks, > >>>>> Slavo. > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Eduardo Blumenfeld > >>>>> <li...@ruby-forum.com> wrote: > >>>>> > I agree 100% with Cory, we just need to calm down, regroup, give > >>>>> > support > >>>>> > to Tomas, make our opinions heard and continue using the technology > >>>>> > that > >>>>> > helps us become way more productive in our jobs. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > On the other hand Jimmy will still be around, he just moved to > >>>>> > another > >>>>> > job. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Regards, > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Eduardo Blumenfeld > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Cory Foy wrote: > >>>>> >> Ok, I like to propose a pause in action. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Here's what we know. Jimmy has moved on, as has Jim. Tomas is the > >>>>> >> main > >>>>> >> person left, and from the emails we've received, he's only working > >>>>> >> on it > >>>>> >> part-time. I don't know the politics of this specific org, but > being > >>>>> >> an > >>>>> >> ex-softie I do have an idea, and that hunch is that the politics > >>>>> >> that > >>>>> >> caused the reshuffle were not a conspiracy theory against > IronRuby, > >>>>> >> but > >>>>> >> just normal organization dysfunction and quarterly reorganization. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> We also know thay we have a community of people who are passionate > >>>>> >> about > >>>>> >> IronRuby, and a secondary wave of people driven into action by the > >>>>> >> events of the past day or so. It stands to reason, from work I've > >>>>> >> done > >>>>> >> in other communties, that one or two will end up being long term > >>>>> >> participants because of the new awareness. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> That said, I don't think that what we should do right now is fork > >>>>> >> it, > >>>>> >> since IronRuby relies heavily on the DLR which wouldn't be > >>>>> >> controlled. > >>>>> >> This is not to say that we take it off the table. Rather we need > to > >>>>> >> ask > >>>>> >> ourselves what holes have now opened up that we need to fill: > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> 1) Jimmy provided leadership and vision for the project. We've now > >>>>> >> lost > >>>>> >> that, and either Tomas will pick this up internally, or we will > need > >>>>> >> an > >>>>> >> external person to run with the vision. Regardless, the person > will > >>>>> >> have > >>>>> >> to interface with and understand the vision from the Microsoft > side. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> 2) Tomas already mentioned needs like a CI and gatekeeper. I bet > >>>>> >> there > >>>>> >> are lots of other needs, and if this is truly a community-owned > >>>>> >> movement, we need to engage with Tomas and the remaining team to > >>>>> >> understand what else we're missing. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> 3) IronRuby has likely taken a huge blow of credibility from the > >>>>> >> enterprise adoption side, because if it isn't supported by > Microsoft > >>>>> >> PSS, they will be unlikely to use it internally or in their > >>>>> >> products. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> All three of these are vital points that we need to think about as > a > >>>>> >> community. Someone is going to have to step up to take charge of > >>>>> >> this - > >>>>> >> and it's not going to come from the Mono side. Tomas may be > willing > >>>>> >> to > >>>>> >> take charge as much as possible - no one has asked him, and that's > a > >>>>> >> shame. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> IronRuby has not had a heart attack which requires CPR. That means > >>>>> >> we > >>>>> >> need to take a measured, levelheaded response as a community and > >>>>> >> work to > >>>>> >> understand how we can help and how we can respond in a way that > >>>>> >> makes > >>>>> >> sense. We already know from Jimmy's tweets that he's planning an > >>>>> >> email > >>>>> >> for the group - how can we take advantage of the knowledge Jim and > >>>>> >> Jimmy > >>>>> >> have, and support the work Tomas is doing? > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Finally, we may have a burst of energy right now, but no form of > >>>>> >> sprinting is going to help solve this. This is not a "we have to > >>>>> >> take > >>>>> >> action now before we lose the opportunity!" moment. The code is > >>>>> >> there. > >>>>> >> Many of the contributors are there, and know what is going on > >>>>> >> internally. Let's collaborate and find a way to make this project > a > >>>>> >> real > >>>>> >> success. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Cory > >>>>> > > >>>>> > -- > >>>>> > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> > Ironruby-core mailing list > >>>>> > Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > >>>>> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core > >>>>> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Ironruby-core mailing list > >>>>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > >>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Ironruby-core mailing list > >>>>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > >>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Ironruby-core mailing list > >>>>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > >>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Ironruby-core mailing list > >>>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > >>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Ironruby-core mailing list > >>> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > >>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core > >>> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ironruby-core mailing list > > Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core > > > > > > > > -- > Michael Letterle > IronRuby MVP > http://blog.prokrams.com > _______________________________________________ > Ironruby-core mailing list > Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core > -- Miguel A. Madero Reyes www.miguelmadero.com (blog) m...@miguelmadero.com
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