+1 on being patient and see how we can shape the project and run a more community-driven ironruby, I think it's too early and rushed to start thinking about a fork (ferb or whatever). I'm on vacation right now so I can't do much, I'll be back in a week and see how I can help with anything.
2010/8/9, Jimmy Schementi <ji...@schementi.com>: > Ah, after a nice restful weekend of casually looking at the psychotic > twitter reactions, I think I owe this thread a little attention. > > First off, I appreciate the overwhelming support, and I think I speak on > behalf of Jim and Tomas as well. Thank you for caring so much, and for all > the personal best wishes. Also, I appreciate everyone who stepped in and > "cooled" down the situation. Those who see opportunity in this are > well-suited to help shape the future of the project. But enough with the > mushy stuff ... > > The reality of open-source software is that corporate sponsorship and > funding comes and goes, and it would appear the IronRuby project is just > going through that normal cycle. I'm grateful to Microsoft for not only > employing me, but funding IronRuby to the 1.1 release. Keep in mind that > Microsoft has not officially said anything regarding IronRuby, even it seems > my leaving Microsoft speaks volumes. So, let's just assume what we suspect > to be true unless told otherwise. > > This is a monumental opportunity for you all, the IronRuby community, to > rally around something Microsoft invested in, enough to a initial 1.0 > release, and make it your own. However, there are two things we should ask > Microsoft to commit to during this transition: > > 1. *Be clear about their intentions. *I *know *this will eventually > happen, but I want to make it clear to all of you that this is the first > step. > 2. *Donate IronRuby to a non-Microsoft entity *(again, assuming they > don't plan on continuing funding). Though IronRuby is licensed under an > open-source license, it is copyright Microsoft. IronRuby.net is owned by > Microsoft. The GitHub "ironruby" organization is managed by Microsoft. > Etc, > etc. If the intention is to cease funding IronRuby, then a non-profit > foundation owning IronRuby, like CodePlex Foundation, would be ideal, so > that we don't need to jointly own the copyright. There also is precedence > in > Microsoft for internal employees to donate to the CodePlex foundation, so > Tomas and Jim can continue to contribute. > > In other words, a complete transition to non-Microsoft ownership. I'm not > the only person with a voice here, so if there is anything else you'd like > to see Microsoft do for a smooth transition, please speak up and let's > discuss it. I'm hoping my leaving announcement will speed this process > along, so assume we have little time to provide "demands". > > After these things happen, then we can all start figuring how to run the > project, put infrastructure in place, and start figuring out what we need to > accomplish to release IronRuby 1.2. Or, if none if this happens in the time > we'd like, we can start FeRb (as @robconery essentially started to do =)). > But let's try to be patient with IronRuby itself for now. I've also hinted > at revisiting RubyCLR, but that will be a separate project (do contact me if > you're interested). Also, feel free to still have the important > conversations brought up in the previous messages; in no way am I suggesting > people stop talking. > > Cory mentioned that my "leadership and vision" was lost. I think you're > taking my job too seriously =P ... but joking aside, I just wanted to move > back to New York and it was time to leave Microsoft, but not Ruby or > IronRuby. So, for the foreseeable future, or unless someone else wants to > step up, you can still count on me to be the face of IronRuby and write > code. Also, my new job is in the .NET world still, so to stay sane I'll > still want to work on IronRuby. =) > > This is a challenging and emotional time indeed. Again, I appreciate > everyone's support and energy. Please keep the energy high, but directed. > Continue discussing "why IronRuby". Work in your private fork, take shots at > fixing bugs or getting more RubySpec tests passing; they'll eventually get > integrated back. Continue blogging about how you're using IronRuby. Show the > world that regardless of Microsoft's position, the community is what makes > the project live. > > Now, discuss! > > ~Jimmy > > > On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Jim Deville <jdevi...@microsoft.com> wrote: > >> At this point Jimmy might, but the only one that should be commiting >> there directly is the automated account. Once we get official word from MS >> on what will happen with everything, I’d be happy to discuss the fate of >> the >> IronRuby organization on Github J >> >> >> >> *From:* ironruby-core-boun...@rubyforge.org [mailto: >> ironruby-core-boun...@rubyforge.org] *On Behalf Of *Orion Edwards >> *Sent:* Sunday, August 08, 2010 2:07 PM >> >> *To:* ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Ironruby-core] "Start spreading the news" >> >> >> >> 4. Rails on .NET >> >> >> >> I think asp.net mvc took a lot of the wind out of this particular >> scenario, but rails is still literally *years* ahead of MVC in both >> maturity >> and thinking. >> >> >> >> If we could get rails under ironruby easily deplorable to iis, I think >> this >> would help a lot >> >> >> >> On question I'd REALLY like answered is this: >> >> >> >> Does Jimmy still have commit access to the main repos on github now that >> he's left MS? Does anyone else outside MS have this? >> >> >> >> Thanks, Orion >> >> On 9/08/2010, at 3:36 AM, Kevin Berridge <kevin.w.berri...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> To Cory's point about IronRuby's credibility in the Enterprise: >> >> >> >> I think its certainly true that if IronRuby is not a MS supported tool, >> there will be shops that will not be able to use it. On the other hand, >> there are still plenty of other shops that could use it, if only they >> understand what they could use it for and how. >> >> >> >> To date, the story of what IronRuby is "for" has been rather weak. I know >> it's a language, and so it's possibilities are just about endless, but >> what >> are the main areas we think people can derive significant benefit from >> using >> it? >> >> >> >> If IronRuby really does end up being primarily community driven, we need >> to >> come up with a much better story around what it is for, and helping people >> get started with using it for those things. This could help drive >> adoption, >> which could in turn help drive contributors. >> >> >> >> Some examples of things IronRuby may be 'for": >> >> 1. Unit Testing ( >> http://kevin-berridge.blogspot.com/2010/08/testing-c-with-rspec-and-ruby.html >> ) >> >> 2. Embedded Scripting ( >> http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2009/12/ironruby-rubyconf-2009-part-35.html >> ) >> >> 3. Silverlight ( >> http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2008/08/walk-through-silverlight-flickr-client.html >> ) >> >> 4. ? >> >> >> >> Jimmy talked about #1 and #2 here: >> >> >> http://blog.jimmy.schementi.com/2010/04/mix10-part-3-using-dynamic-languages-in.html >> >> Thanks, >> >> Kevin Berridge >> >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Slavo Furman <sla...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I agree with Cory, too, but on the other hand it would be very helpful >> if Microsoft (I mean someone who can speak for Microsoft) clearly say >> what are they intentions with IronRuby (and maybe IronPython, too) for >> the future. >> >> Are they "releasing IronRuby to the community"? Is Microsoft like to >> (officially) participate in future in IronRuby development? If so, in >> what way? As a project owner? And so on... >> >> Only knowing in what situation we really are we can make our decisions >> about what to do. >> >> More clarity will also help with using the technology, for example, I >> am considering using IronRuby for one project and now I do not know >> what to expect from future (questions like - will development of >> IronRuby continue, what about Silverlight and Azure support, what >> about v1.9 compatibility, ...) and it is now became problematic to >> make some of decisions. >> >> thanks, >> Slavo. >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Eduardo Blumenfeld <li...@ruby-forum.com> >> wrote: >> > I agree 100% with Cory, we just need to calm down, regroup, give support >> > to Tomas, make our opinions heard and continue using the technology that >> > helps us become way more productive in our jobs. >> > >> > On the other hand Jimmy will still be around, he just moved to another >> > job. >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Eduardo Blumenfeld >> > >> > Cory Foy wrote: >> >> Ok, I like to propose a pause in action. >> >> >> >> Here's what we know. Jimmy has moved on, as has Jim. Tomas is the main >> >> person left, and from the emails we've received, he's only working on >> >> it >> >> part-time. I don't know the politics of this specific org, but being an >> >> ex-softie I do have an idea, and that hunch is that the politics that >> >> caused the reshuffle were not a conspiracy theory against IronRuby, but >> >> just normal organization dysfunction and quarterly reorganization. >> >> >> >> We also know thay we have a community of people who are passionate >> >> about >> >> IronRuby, and a secondary wave of people driven into action by the >> >> events of the past day or so. It stands to reason, from work I've done >> >> in other communties, that one or two will end up being long term >> >> participants because of the new awareness. >> >> >> >> That said, I don't think that what we should do right now is fork it, >> >> since IronRuby relies heavily on the DLR which wouldn't be controlled. >> >> This is not to say that we take it off the table. Rather we need to ask >> >> ourselves what holes have now opened up that we need to fill: >> >> >> >> 1) Jimmy provided leadership and vision for the project. We've now lost >> >> that, and either Tomas will pick this up internally, or we will need an >> >> external person to run with the vision. Regardless, the person will >> >> have >> >> to interface with and understand the vision from the Microsoft side. >> >> >> >> 2) Tomas already mentioned needs like a CI and gatekeeper. I bet there >> >> are lots of other needs, and if this is truly a community-owned >> >> movement, we need to engage with Tomas and the remaining team to >> >> understand what else we're missing. >> >> >> >> 3) IronRuby has likely taken a huge blow of credibility from the >> >> enterprise adoption side, because if it isn't supported by Microsoft >> >> PSS, they will be unlikely to use it internally or in their products. >> >> >> >> All three of these are vital points that we need to think about as a >> >> community. Someone is going to have to step up to take charge of this - >> >> and it's not going to come from the Mono side. Tomas may be willing to >> >> take charge as much as possible - no one has asked him, and that's a >> >> shame. >> >> >> >> IronRuby has not had a heart attack which requires CPR. That means we >> >> need to take a measured, levelheaded response as a community and work >> >> to >> >> understand how we can help and how we can respond in a way that makes >> >> sense. We already know from Jimmy's tweets that he's planning an email >> >> for the group - how can we take advantage of the knowledge Jim and >> >> Jimmy >> >> have, and support the work Tomas is doing? >> >> >> >> Finally, we may have a burst of energy right now, but no form of >> >> sprinting is going to help solve this. This is not a "we have to take >> >> action now before we lose the opportunity!" moment. The code is there. >> >> Many of the contributors are there, and know what is going on >> >> internally. Let's collaborate and find a way to make this project a >> >> real >> >> success. >> >> >> >> Cory >> > >> > -- >> > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Ironruby-core mailing list >> > Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ironruby-core mailing list >> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ironruby-core mailing list >> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ironruby-core mailing list >> Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org >> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core >> >> > -- Daniele Alessandri http://clorophilla.net/ http://twitter.com/JoL1hAHN _______________________________________________ Ironruby-core mailing list Ironruby-core@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/ironruby-core
