Wes Biggs wrote:
> > All your arguments are factually right. But pyschology is at work here, and
> > especially in an extremely important project like JDK porting (from my
> > perspective, it is the second most important project after the kernel and at
> > times more important), you have to account for psychology, whether you're doing
> > work on a voluntary basis or not. It just makes things much smoother.
>
> You're confusing the Blackdown port of Sun's sources with truly free software. Sun
> has paid lip service to GNU/Linux support to gain media attention and developer
> chic, but their supposed support of Java 2 on GNU/Linux seems to be more
> javax.swagger than javax.swing, and from a developer point of view, they've
> *increased* Blackdown's time-to-market by requiring JCK compatibility (I'm not
> arguing that this should be eliminated, just that this is the effect it has had).
>
> If you're interested in contributing to a free project, consider Japhar
> (http://www.japhar.org/), Kaffe (http://www.transvirtual.com/), both free JVMs, or
> the GNU Classpath project (http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath/), which is
> providing a clean-room class library implementation.
Most java developers who have worked for any time are probably "tainted" by Suns
sources. I'm very careful about what I work on for free software.
If I had known three years ago what I do today. I would have ignored java and stuck
with Objective-C.
I'll continue to program java today but am silently waiting for its successor.
I wish I could contribute to those project but I'm not able too and I think many are
in that boat.
I've traced way to many bugs over the past three years into Sun's sacred JVM.
>
>
> IMO, if Sun does not come through on their promise of support for GNU/Linux, it's
> futile to complain to Steve, Juergen and the other folks working on the Blackdown
> ports, because there's only so much they can do with Sun's proprietary sources
> without Sun's explicit support. Linux has distinguished itself as the premiere
> operating environment for free software. Your assertion that the JDK is equivalent
> in importance to the kernel may have some meaning to you, but while the folks who
> are doing the GNU/Linux port may be more involved with Sun than you or I, they're
> still not the ones calling the shots.
No but He is expressing the sentiment I suspect of the vast majority of Linux/Java
programmers !
And there does not seem to be another avenue. No one is unhappy with the work that the
porters
have done the problem is Sun's tied there hands. I don't see being very very unhappy
with Sun's approach to java
an java on linux in particular to be and attack on those who are doing there best to
make it a success.
I would join the porters but my interest lies in novel JVM implementations not the
current way java is implemented.
But I think that allowing research work on the JVM is so far from Sun myopic view of
java that it's not even worth trying to
get them to understand the possibilities which java holds.
Many people who use Linux understand this and I wholly agree that Java on Linux is
second only in importance to the kernel itself. The fact that a company which likes
to talk about WORA but ignores
and open platform which runs on hardware which I personally have never heard of is
astounding, and even scary.
I hope that Gnu can soon provide a stable java platform so that Java can be freed from
people capable of such behavior.
It makes me wonder how many important advancements is Computer Science have been
destroyed by mindless corporations.
Java is a concept not a implementation. Sun controls a implementation the Gnu world
will control the concept.
>
>
> I'd rather see the efforts being expended here complaining that API foo has been
> released yet go into developing a free implementation of foo. If you want software
> with definite release schedules and true support, you shouldn't be relying on
> GNU/Linux in the first place, and psychological or not, whining isn't going to
> change that.
Given the opportunity I'm sure someone would be happy to support 24/7 java on Linux
for commercial use.
Many people are paying for Linux support today. I would be willing to pay for
commercial support
Mike
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