Exactly, UML tools need to be more useful when you already have code. I find it a pity that not many people are talking about their needs for better tools, and as a result we do not get the benefit of having tools meet these needs.
Christian, I know you haven't used our tool - but if you are interested in talking about what we are building meets/doesn't meet your needs publicly (here, your blog, etc) I can sponsor a license for you. Robert, or anyone else, if you want to help raise the level of discussion on such tools, drop me an e-mail: vineet at architexa dot com Vineet On May 11, 3:00 pm, Robert Casto <[email protected]> wrote: > The think I like most about tools like this is the ability to visualize what > is already there. I won't use it that often to write code, but for > understanding the code base, learning how things are organized, and > following an execution path; this is what these kinds of tools are good for. > > On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Christian Edward Gruber < > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > In principle, I agree that taking a design -> code approach is going to > > work in an agile environment far less conveniently than a code -> design > > approach. Beyond that I can't say. I haven't used your tool. Personally I > > do prefer to document as/after the fact, not up-front. > > > Christian. > > > On May 11, 2010, at 2:30 PM, Vineet wrote: > > > Christian, > >> Glad you like it. > > >> Good point about sales. I am really not worrying too much about that > >> right now. I just want to make sure that people find it useful. > > >> As for the different take: we are taking a reverse-engineering based > >> approach as opposed to the more popular design based approaches. Are > >> there other tools that do reverse-engineering: yes, but they are > >> typically very limited in their capabilities - so much so that teams > >> have a hard time using them when they try to follow an agile > >> development approach. Do you agree? > > >> Vineet > > >> On May 11, 1:29 pm, Christian Edward Gruber > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>> So - nothing against your offering, which seems pretty nice... but > >>> it's not a "different take". Generating diagrams from code, reverse/ > >>> forward engineering such diagrams, and round-trip stuff has been > >>> around since the mid-to-late 90's, and some of it was in decent form > >>> at the time, as well. > > >>> If you can make it more usable, then kudos... but it's not really > >>> innovative in any respect that I saw. I wouldn't try to sell it that > >>> way - a lot of people with experience with those systems are now > >>> decision makers and will consider you to not have done your research > >>> if you present this sort of thing as new. > > >>> Christian. > > >>> On May 11, 2010, at 1:11 PM, Vineet wrote: > > >>> Wasn't Together Control Center acquired by Borland, and what is not > >>>> part of their core? I talked to some ex-Borland folk, and my > >>>> understanding is that what got them popular was this reverse > >>>> engineering engineering support to something useful that they had > >>>> added. > > >>> Regardless, here is perhaps the question: What in particular do you > >>>> like about the video? And, do you use any UML tools? If not, does this > >>>> meet your needs? What can we do to help you with the tool? > > >>> Thanks! > > >>> Vineet > >>>> -- > >>>> Founder, Architexa > >>>> [email protected] :: 617.818.0548 > >>>>www.architexa.com-Know Your Code > > >>> On May 11, 12:34 pm, Robert Casto <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>> Take a look at Together Control Center. They had the code to UML view > >>>>> working in both directions. It doesn't have all the nice GUI stuff > >>>>> your tool > >>>>> appears to have, but they did this some time ago and ended up > >>>>> selling it and > >>>>> closing the company because they couldn't compete with Rational. > > >>> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Vineet <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> I have been extremely frustrated with UML tooling in the past, and > >>>>>> for > >>>>>> the last 2+ years have been involved in a project for building > >>>>>> something very cool. See a video here: > > >>>>>>http://blog.architexa.com/2010/05/different-take-on-uml-a-sneak-preview/ > > >>> Most UML Tools focus on creating diagrams before coding, but we > >>>>>> believe in having diagrams made from code. Where other tools require > >>>>>> months of work to get something useful, we want to get you useful > >>>>>> results in minutes if not seconds. Some tools require reading lots > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> documentation to use, but we have wanted a tool that you can get > >>>>>> up to > >>>>>> speed in 5 minutes. > > >>> What do you think of it? As we are rolling this out, I would really > >>>>>> like to hear your thoughts on what we should focus on to help you > >>>>>> with > >>>>>> your work. > > >>> Regards, > >>>>>> Vineet > > >>> -- > >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>>> Groups > >>>>>> "The Java Posse" group. > >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >>>>>> [email protected]<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups > >>>>>> .com> > >>>>>> <javaposse > >>>>>> %2bunsubscr...@googlegroups .com> > >>>>>> . > >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at > >>>>>>http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > >>> -- > >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>> Groups "The Java Posse" group. > >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >>>> [email protected]<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups > >>>> .com> > >>>> . > >>>> For more options, visit this group athttp:// > >>>> groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en > >>>> . > > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >>> "The Java Posse" group. > >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >>> [email protected]<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups > >>> .com> > >>> . > >>> For more options, visit this group athttp:// > >>> groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "The Java Posse" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected]<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups > >> .com> > >> . > >> For more options, visit this group at > >>http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "The Java Posse" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups > > .com> > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- > Robert Castowww.IWantFreeShipping.com > Find Amazon Filler Items easily! > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. 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