First of all, happy holidays everyone!

I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not 
> only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we 
> communicate.
> With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about 
> how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and 
> their use of slack as a communication medium).
> We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along 
> with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the 
> way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and 
> returning ones.
> Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard 
> work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 
>

As a recently elected board member, I agree that the communication problem 
becomes more and more important. It is *NOT *my top priority for the 
record, current Infra and Community Health issues are more important to me.

   - I am not a fan of Gitter. +100 for "Gitter is nice because everything 
   is public and googleable" from Gavin, but it is indeed  abandoned. Issues 
   with notifications and barely usable mobile clients make it a pretty bad 
   default system
   - CDF will not be a replacement in short-term. Their Slack is still in 
   evaluation, and it is a free account at the moment. Until CDF offers a 
   final long-term solution with conversation history retention and easy way 
   to join, it is no-go option for a centralized solution
   - Self-hosted setup with Jenkins LDAP or GitHub integrations might be a 
   good solution for long-term (keybase, rocketchat, Mattermost, whatever), 
   especially if we can offer easy sign-up and access to conversations.  But 
   it is an additional service to setup/maintain, and at the moment the Infra 
   team is quite overloaded with other topics
   - IRC is same as above. It is unusable without conversation histories, 
   and we would need to self-host them.

My preference would be to keep status quo w.r.t this topic for now, and to 
leave it to SIGs/plugin teams to decide. Once CDF has its own solutions, we 
can consider adopting them. With the current trends there might be a GitHub 
Chat at some point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Best regards,
Oleg
 

On Friday, December 27, 2019 at 1:34:28 PM UTC+1, Tim Jacomb wrote:
>
> Personally I’ve never found the invite system in slack very difficult, 
> (not as simple as straight GitHub integration :( ) but you just deploy an 
> app like 
> https://github.com/outsideris/slack-invite-automation/blob/master/README.md, 
> add a badge to your readme and then people self service sign themselves up. 
> (Jenkins UX is a weird one for some reason CDF foundation hasn’t set that 
> up so you need an invite)
>
> I’ve seen it work really well elsewhere, k8s has a very large slack 
> community with multiple sigs and user groups.
>
> Also I’ve never googled something and had a gitter result come back...
>
> Discourse could be useful, as an alternative / supplicant to a mailing 
> list but I don’t think it handles the real time chat aspect.
>
> IRC has a higher barrier to entry imo especially for someone who has used 
> slack or gitter. It works well once you get used to it  but I don’t think 
> many newer projects are using it.
>
> Gitter works most of the time and it’s okay (few annoying issues with it 
> though)
>
> I agree that driving this through a SIG would probably be best, with 
> analysis on what the community wants, along with options out there and a 
> recommendation?
>
> Or different SIGs / plugins keep choosing their own means and it stays 
> fragmented....
>
> Happy holidays
> Tim 
>
>
> On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 11:41, Marky Jackson <[email protected] 
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>> I said Hugo but meant Discourse
>>
>> On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:39 PM, Marky Jackson <[email protected] 
>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I like using chat bots with Hugo but found it even easier with slack and 
>> kubernetes integration but I think that might be over the top.
>> I do like this conversation though and think it would be worth a survey 
>> of sort but that is up to the board and sig leads to try and drive adoption.
>> I think the advocacy team can help drive this and other topics but the 
>> leads of sig’s and the board have the ultimate representation and that was 
>> more the logic for my original email, to help the larger community 
>> discussion take place in the open.
>>
>> On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:35 PM, William Hetherington <[email protected] 
>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Interesting, I run discourse for a personal project but didn’t think 
>> about it for this.... that is definitely another option!
>>
>> I wrote a plugin for it to do websockety type comms from a chat box, but 
>> I haven’t looked at it in ages, it is probably not functional atm.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 18:12 Marky Jackson <[email protected] 
>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am a +1 on discourse. Widely used in another oss project and a great 
>>> medium.
>>> The mailing list is good but lacks the direct ‘fast’ style 
>>> communications a project of this size needs. I still use it but it is not 
>>> part of muscle memory.
>>>
>>> On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:10 PM, 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <
>>> [email protected] <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Personally, I'd love to downplay the realtime chat and make the mailing 
>>> lists a bit more useful. Maybe something like discourse (self hosted, or 
>>> https://free.discourse.group/) setup, where we can have threads that 
>>> are easily searchable. Its totally able to be managed by email for those 
>>> who prefer email, and threaded for those that don't. 
>>>
>>> I can't remember the last time I did a google search and the jenkins 
>>> mailing list came up.
>>>
>>> But yea, a longer discussion is probably needed.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 6:04 PM Marky Jackson <[email protected] 
>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Replying to both Gavin and William,
>>>> I think your both points are fair and I completely accept it. I do 
>>>> think gitter is limiting but I am in favor of openness over limiting any 
>>>> day.
>>>> Thank you both for your insight and this is what the community needs 
>>>> more of. Open discussion and understanding of all view points.
>>>> Thank you both again and happy holidays 
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 26, 2019, at 5:53 PM, William Hetherington <[email protected] 
>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> Echo much of what Gavin said. Chat is a tough problem to solve, you 
>>>> don’t reach critical mass if there is a cost, and there are just so many.
>>>>
>>>> Keybase.io and a private Jenkins team might be a good option?
>>>>
>>>> It’s e2e encrypted, X-platform clients, allows for public entry rooms 
>>>> in what is otherwise a private “team”
>>>>
>>>> https://keybase.io/willwh is my user if you want to follow or chat.
>>>>
>>>> The other nice thing is keybase is well integrated to github too :)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Will
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 17:41 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <
>>>> [email protected] <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would be very much against yet another slack i'd have to join. 
>>>>> Especially cause its a closed system, requiring invites to join. Its 
>>>>> certainly why i havn't bothered looking into the jenkins-ux sig.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable, you only 
>>>>> need a github account, which is the minimum you'd need to contribute to 
>>>>> any 
>>>>> of the jenkins systems anyways. Though gitter is pretty abandoned, and I 
>>>>> would prefer IRC, especially with a public logging bot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gavin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 5:27 PM Marky Jackson <[email protected] 
>>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the 
>>>>>> year and at the roadmap for the future.
>>>>>> With [gitter being down](
>>>>>> https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think 
>>>>>> the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic 
>>>>>> (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more 
>>>>>> robust 
>>>>>> form of unified community bonding. 
>>>>>> I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, 
>>>>>> not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we 
>>>>>> communicate.
>>>>>> With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more 
>>>>>> about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new 
>>>>>> world 
>>>>>> (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
>>>>>> We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations 
>>>>>> (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the 
>>>>>> plans 
>>>>>> and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected 
>>>>>> officials 
>>>>>> and returning ones.
>>>>>> Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the 
>>>>>> hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/139A5221-5B88-4B8E-A96A-39D399587D0F%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> William Hetherington
>>>> w - opschops.ca
>>>> t - @wmwh
>>>>
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>> -- 
>> William Hetherington
>> w - opschops.ca
>> t - @wmwh
>>
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