I believe some partners do actually have specs that are somewhat newer
(0.94?) though not 1.0.
On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Rod McChesney wrote:
> > I also suspect something a bit more mercenary on Sun's part. I
> > suspect that they are putting JSP 1.0 support in their JavaServer or Java
> > Web Server product and want to be the first to market with a 1.0 JSP engine.
> > That way the other servlet engines will have to play catch up with Sun. If
> > I was a producer of third-party servlet engines, I'd be suspicious...
>
> This is definitely not the case. Sun is working with partners on JSP;
> they wouldn't do that if they were trying to ace out the market.
> Specs and products are the responsibility of separate groups anyway,
> and in general the products lag behind the specs a bit because nobody
> wants to make products dependent on (usually late) specs.
>
> Rod McChesney, Korobra Corporation
>
>
> Kurt Williams wrote:
> >
> > There are at least three commercial implementations of JSP. JRun,
> > ServletExec, and WebSphere. All three of them provide excellent support if
> > there is a problem and rarely (not "usually") use the excuse that "it has
> > not been finalized
> > yet!" All three provide support for the 0.91 spec, and some (such
> > as JRun) are providing 0.92 support as well. The implementations are robust
> > and very usable. The JSP is portable between the platforms (as long as you
> > stick to the 0.91 spec) The tech support from all three platforms is
> > decent. It's not always great, but it's there.
> >
> > To say there isn't currently a finalized spec is a bit incorrect.
> > The 0.91 is "final" for 0.91. The 0.92 spec is "final" for 0.92. There
> > won't be any more changes to those specs, only new releases of the specs.
> > If you believe that JSP is not useable because it's version doesn't have a
> > "1" in front of it, then you are missing out on one of the best new
> > technologies to hit the Web scene in quite a while.
> >
> > I agree that Sun's JSP team could be more communicative with this
> > list than they are right now. I'm a member of the Servlet list serv and the
> > Sun JSDK team is very responsive. My own personal opinion is that the 1.0
> > spec is probably very close to being done. It may even be done already. I
> > suspect that Sun is withholding it pending a release of their reference
> > implementation, which probably isn't done yet.
> >
> > I also suspect something a bit more mercenary on Sun's part. I
> > suspect that they are putting JSP 1.0 support in their JavaServer or Java
> > Web Server product and want to be the first to market with a 1.0 JSP engine.
> > That way the other servlet engines will have to play catch up with Sun. If
> > I was a producer of third-party servlet engines, I'd be suspicious...
> >
> > - Kurt W.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Shah, Mayank (RSCH) [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 11:56 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: 1.0 Spec First Quarter?
> > >
> > > There is one simple reason for having a released spec: SUPPORT!
> > >
> > > How many JSP commercial engines are available today?
> > >
> > > Of these how many say that they will provide support if you are stuck with
> > > a
> > > problem?
> > >
> > > If there is a problem, their reply is usually: "it has not been finalized
> > > yet"!
> > >
> > > HTML does not have a final spec, but it does have HTML 1, HTML 2, HTML 3,
> > > HTML 4.....
> > >
> > > Let's see, what do we have from sun:
> > >
> > > JDK 1.0.2, JDK 1.1, JDK 1.1.1, JDK 1.1.2, JDK 1.1.3, JDK 1.1.4, .... JDK
> > > 1.2.
> > >
> > > So nothing is a final release , but there is final release till there is a
> > > new release!
> > >
> > >
> > > Mayank Shah
> > > Research Technology
> > > 212.449.0463
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Brian Burridge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 1:33 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: 1.0 Spec First Quarter?
> > >
> > > I understand your desire to recieve the final spec, but
> > > keep
> > > in mind a few
> > > things. First, there never really is a final spec. Take
> > > HTML
> > > or Perl as an
> > > example. Second, although the final spec is not yet
> > > released, the current spec
> > > functions just fine. We are using it on live projects
> > > already, and we are
> > > simply ecstatic with JSP as a development environment. I
> > > look forward to spec
> > > 1, but don't know that it is going to mean any difference
> > > to
> > > our development
> > > whatsoever. Everything we need to do can be done, and is
> > > being done.
> > >
> > > One difference that might be making you more nervous is in
> > > how we are using
> > > JSP. I know that most people on this list seem to be very
> > > excited that JSP will
> > > be similiar to Cold Fusion. Whereas, my excitement about
> > > JSP
> > > is that it is
> > > nothing like Cold Fusion. Here at Val-Pak/Cox Target
> > > Media,
> > > we use only two
> > > tags in all our code: <%...%> and <usebean>. That's it. No
> > > other tags are used.
> > > The beauty of JSP (to me) is that it does inline Java.
> > > Java
> > > is stable and well
> > > supported, and what spec of JSP I'm using will not affect
> > > my
> > > Java code. I know
> > > this goes against some of the spec design and much of the
> > > discussion on this
> > > list, but the ability to inline Java, call db beans, and
> > > packages that we can
> > > download and/or purchase, is just amazing. The Java
> > > programming is much faster
> > > and easier to code than trying to build full servlets and
> > > compile them, and yet
> > > the speed is the same.
> > >
> > > My main point, is, that at least to us, the next spec will
> > > make zero difference
> > > in anything we do here. We aren't going to have to recode
> > > anything, we aren't
> > > going to gain any functionality (because we already have
> > > the
> > > full functionality
> > > of Java), and it isn't going to get any more stable
> > > (haven't
> > > had one case of
> > > server crash, or any other instability since we installed
> > > New Atlanta 3 months
> > > ago.)
> > >
> > > Hang in there, and don't worry about the future of JSP. As
> > > long as Java has a
> > > future, so does JSP.
> > >
> > > Brian N. Burridge
> > > Web Specialist
> > > Val-Pak/Cox Target Media
> > >
> > > Judd Salisbury wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is almost the end of the first quarter and I believe
> > > JavaSoft
> > > > committed to have the spec completed. I have been using
> > > JSP since July
> > > > 1998 when the spec was in version .90 and call me naive
> > > but I always
> > > > thought the final spec was just another month or two
> > > away.
> > > With each
> > > > month that pasts it becomes harder and harder for me to
> > > justify the use
> > > > of JSP. I have in the past been a great supporter of
> > > JSP
> > > in my
> > > > organization and have developed hundreds of pages using
> > > JSP, but I am
> > > > losing my political strength to defend the use of JSP in
> > > my
> > > > organization. I hate to say it but if the spec does not
> > > go gold in a
> > > > week or two I will have to recommend to my company to
> > > standardize on ASP
> > > > instead. I can no longer afford to defend a
> > > specification
> > > that can not
> > > > seem to make it out of the .9 something category. Could
> > > someone at
> > > > JavaSoft confirm that they will not be going to be
> > > hitting
> > > their own 1Q
> > > > deadline. And an explanation of what is holding them.
> > > At
> > > least then I
> > > > could tell my employer why the JSP spec will not be done
> > > by the first
> > > > quarter as I said it would be.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Judd
> > > >
> > > >
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