> I also suspect something a bit more mercenary on
> Sun's part. I
> suspect that they are putting JSP 1.0 support in their
> JavaServer or Java
> Web Server product and want to be the first to market with a
> 1.0 JSP engine.
That would be a level of disingenuousness that I would expect from
Microsoft, but hopefully not Sun. If Sun goes down this route they will no
doubt see experience the mistrust that developers have for Microsoft as well
as see support for the new Java standards they define being eroded.
Scott
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kurt Williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 2:33 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: 1.0 Spec First Quarter?
>
>
> There are at least three commercial implementations
> of JSP. JRun,
> ServletExec, and WebSphere. All three of them provide
> excellent support if
> there is a problem and rarely (not "usually") use the excuse
> that "it has
> not been finalized
> yet!" All three provide support for the 0.91 spec,
> and some (such
> as JRun) are providing 0.92 support as well. The
> implementations are robust
> and very usable. The JSP is portable between the platforms
> (as long as you
> stick to the 0.91 spec) The tech support from all three platforms is
> decent. It's not always great, but it's there.
>
> To say there isn't currently a finalized spec is a
> bit incorrect.
> The 0.91 is "final" for 0.91. The 0.92 spec is "final" for
> 0.92. There
> won't be any more changes to those specs, only new releases
> of the specs.
> If you believe that JSP is not useable because it's version
> doesn't have a
> "1" in front of it, then you are missing out on one of the best new
> technologies to hit the Web scene in quite a while.
>
> I agree that Sun's JSP team could be more
> communicative with this
> list than they are right now. I'm a member of the Servlet
> list serv and the
> Sun JSDK team is very responsive. My own personal opinion is
> that the 1.0
> spec is probably very close to being done. It may even be
> done already. I
> suspect that Sun is withholding it pending a release of their
> reference
> implementation, which probably isn't done yet.
>
> I also suspect something a bit more mercenary on
> Sun's part. I
> suspect that they are putting JSP 1.0 support in their
> JavaServer or Java
> Web Server product and want to be the first to market with a
> 1.0 JSP engine.
> That way the other servlet engines will have to play catch up
> with Sun. If
> I was a producer of third-party servlet engines, I'd be suspicious...
>
> - Kurt W.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Shah, Mayank (RSCH) [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 11:56 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: 1.0 Spec First Quarter?
> >
> > There is one simple reason for having a released spec: SUPPORT!
> >
> > How many JSP commercial engines are available today?
> >
> > Of these how many say that they will provide support if you
> are stuck with
> > a
> > problem?
> >
> > If there is a problem, their reply is usually: "it has not
> been finalized
> > yet"!
> >
> > HTML does not have a final spec, but it does have HTML 1,
> HTML 2, HTML 3,
> > HTML 4.....
> >
> > Let's see, what do we have from sun:
> >
> > JDK 1.0.2, JDK 1.1, JDK 1.1.1, JDK 1.1.2, JDK 1.1.3, JDK
> 1.1.4, .... JDK
> > 1.2.
> >
> > So nothing is a final release , but there is final release
> till there is a
> > new release!
> >
> >
> > Mayank Shah
> > Research Technology
> > 212.449.0463
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brian Burridge
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 1:33 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: 1.0 Spec First Quarter?
> >
> > I understand your desire to recieve the
> final spec, but
> > keep
> > in mind a few
> > things. First, there never really is a
> final spec. Take
> > HTML
> > or Perl as an
> > example. Second, although the final spec is not yet
> > released, the current spec
> > functions just fine. We are using it on
> live projects
> > already, and we are
> > simply ecstatic with JSP as a development
> environment. I
> > look forward to spec
> > 1, but don't know that it is going to mean
> any difference
> > to
> > our development
> > whatsoever. Everything we need to do can be
> done, and is
> > being done.
> >
> > One difference that might be making you
> more nervous is in
> > how we are using
> > JSP. I know that most people on this list
> seem to be very
> > excited that JSP will
> > be similiar to Cold Fusion. Whereas, my
> excitement about
> > JSP
> > is that it is
> > nothing like Cold Fusion. Here at Val-Pak/Cox Target
> > Media,
> > we use only two
> > tags in all our code: <%...%> and
> <usebean>. That's it. No
> > other tags are used.
> > The beauty of JSP (to me) is that it does
> inline Java.
> > Java
> > is stable and well
> > supported, and what spec of JSP I'm using
> will not affect
> > my
> > Java code. I know
> > this goes against some of the spec design
> and much of the
> > discussion on this
> > list, but the ability to inline Java, call
> db beans, and
> > packages that we can
> > download and/or purchase, is just amazing. The Java
> > programming is much faster
> > and easier to code than trying to build
> full servlets and
> > compile them, and yet
> > the speed is the same.
> >
> > My main point, is, that at least to us, the
> next spec will
> > make zero difference
> > in anything we do here. We aren't going to
> have to recode
> > anything, we aren't
> > going to gain any functionality (because we
> already have
> > the
> > full functionality
> > of Java), and it isn't going to get any more stable
> > (haven't
> > had one case of
> > server crash, or any other instability
> since we installed
> > New Atlanta 3 months
> > ago.)
> >
> > Hang in there, and don't worry about the
> future of JSP. As
> > long as Java has a
> > future, so does JSP.
> >
> > Brian N. Burridge
> > Web Specialist
> > Val-Pak/Cox Target Media
> >
> > Judd Salisbury wrote:
> >
> > > It is almost the end of the first quarter
> and I believe
> > JavaSoft
> > > committed to have the spec completed. I
> have been using
> > JSP since July
> > > 1998 when the spec was in version .90 and
> call me naive
> > but I always
> > > thought the final spec was just another
> month or two
> > away.
> > With each
> > > month that pasts it becomes harder and
> harder for me to
> > justify the use
> > > of JSP. I have in the past been a great
> supporter of
> > JSP
> > in my
> > > organization and have developed hundreds
> of pages using
> > JSP, but I am
> > > losing my political strength to defend
> the use of JSP in
> > my
> > > organization. I hate to say it but if
> the spec does not
> > go gold in a
> > > week or two I will have to recommend to
> my company to
> > standardize on ASP
> > > instead. I can no longer afford to defend a
> > specification
> > that can not
> > > seem to make it out of the .9 something
> category. Could
> > someone at
> > > JavaSoft confirm that they will not be going to be
> > hitting
> > their own 1Q
> > > deadline. And an explanation of what is
> holding them.
> > At
> > least then I
> > > could tell my employer why the JSP spec
> will not be done
> > by the first
> > > quarter as I said it would be.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Judd
> > >
> > >
> >
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