Strange that you fastidiously define harm when it's obvious that the punitive action is synonymous with the harm that I mentioned. But then become very cavalier with your description of ' a guy wanting to change his job'. He did indeed. But by breaking a legally binding contract. For that he should be punished. A punishment that can only be of any consequence if it's harmful If it's not whats the point of punishing him?
Sent from my iPhone. D"r Michael Benjamin. Community Psychiatrist. On 23 Nov 2011, at 22:57, Eric B <[email protected]> wrote: > HI Mark, > > Yes, you are right, harm is the offending word. The statement that was made > is: > > "I'd do everything to harm OBrian so that he in no way benefits and in every > way suffers." > > Harming is different than punishing, very different. > > Punishment : inflict a penalty or sanction on (someone) as retribution for an > offence, especially a transgression of a legal or moral code. > > Harm: have a look here: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/harm > > Its just a guy saying he wants to play for another club, big fucking deal.. > happens all the time! Nothing worth harming someone for. > > Eric > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Mark Humphries > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Eric, > > > > The problem here is your interpretation of "harm". Think more "punish". > > > > I think the point Mike was trying to make was that the club shouldn’t just > > cancel O'Brien's contract, which is probably what he wants, and allow him to > > join West Ham, or whoever. > > > > How do you "harm" someone? Fine them, withhold registration, stop paying > > their wages... for a start > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf Of Eric B > > Sent: 23 November 2011 17:43 > > To: Dr. Michael Benjamin. > > Cc: list leedslist > > Subject: Re: [LU] Miracles of miracles: > > > > and how exactly would you like to harm that someone that is commiting the > > horrendous crime of breaking an employment agreement? > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 5:03 PM, Dr. Michael Benjamin. > > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> It's a simple fact. If AOB is not made to pay and suffer the consequences > > then he will be just the first. He should be made to be the first and last > > to pull a trick like that. > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone. > >> D"r Michael Benjamin. > >> Community Psychiatrist. > >> > >> On 23 Nov 2011, at 18:15, Eric B <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> I have no issue with what you are saying. But the statement of making > >>> an example of him and "harm" him is childish and fucking annoying > >>> coming from an adult to be honest. > >>> > >>> I also maintain its not in LUFC best interest to "harm" players that > >>> want to leave no matter what. > >>> > >>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Leeds List <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> Eric, there are some differences between a professional footballers > > contract and that of an ordinary employee, the major one being that a > > footballers contract has no notice period- if I wished to change jobs all I > > have to do is tell my employer that I'll be leaving in a months time, > > football contracts tend to be more binding and can only be cancelled by > > mutual agreement - this is what the transfer fee is for. > >>>> There is nothing to stop him asking for a transfer or leaving at the end > > of his contract with Leeds however asking to be released and withdrawing his > > labour until then is a clear breach, if you hand in your notice your > > employer is still fully entitled to expect you to work until your end date - > > assuming you are still being paid. > >>>> In this case Leeds are in the right and should hold him to the > > conditions and terms he signed up to - the PFA would be adamant that Leeds > > upheld their side. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> > >>>> On 23 Nov 2011, at 15:27, Eric B <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> "Bullshit. They are a pampered bunch. Contracts are mutually binding. > >>>>> Remember when we wanted them to take a pay cut temporarily to save > >>>>> the club" > >>>>> > >>>>> So what if you think they are pampered? its irrelevant to the issue. > >>>>> If you re jealous about being pampered go to a spa mate. or go to > >>>>> Eilat and check out the dolphins, saw them on telly the other day, > >>>>> nice! > >>>>> > >>>>> A contract is does not strip you of your statutory rights, or > >>>>> whatever that is called. A lot of players leave clubs before their > >>>>> contracts expire, its not exclusive to LUFC. > >>>>> > >>>>> If he wants to sod off then get rid of him and good luck to him! > >>>>> trying to "harm" someone who wants to leave is childish at best and > >>>>> certainly not good business sense. > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Dr. Michael Benjamin. > >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> Bullshit. They are a pampered bunch. Contracts are mutually binding. > > Remember when we wanted them to take a pay cut temporarily to save the club. > >>>>>> The Stoat is spot on. > >>>>>> Hammer the guy and make an example of him. You wanna leave ask to be > > released. Not this way. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone. > >>>>>> D"r Michael Benjamin. > >>>>>> Community Psychiatrist. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 23 Nov 2011, at 15:12, Eric B <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> You want to harm someone for wanting to change clubs? You need > >>>>>>> to understand that being a football player is a JOB. nothing > >>>>>>> else, nothing more. Anybody is entitled to move jobs in a free > >>>>>>> society withing the limits of the law/contract. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Harassment will only lead to unwanted noise and deter others from > >>>>>>> signing in the future. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Are you for real doc? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Dr. Michael Benjamin. > >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>> You have to impose a framework of tolerated accepted behavior. It > > may cost on the short term but will be profitable on the long. > >>>>>>>> A contract is mutually binding. > >>>>>>>> I'd do everything to harm OBrian so that he in no way benefits and > > in every way suffers. > >>>>>>>> One way or another this is a landmark > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone. > >>>>>>>> D"r Michael Benjamin. > >>>>>>>> Community Psychiatrist. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 23 Nov 2011, at 12:42, DAVID NATTAN <[email protected]> > > wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> He / the club might be right on this occasion but what if Snoddy or > > Howson or Clayton or someone else with a sell on value to us did the same. > > If Delph had said he did not want to play for us and we just terminated his > > contract in this way we (or at least Bates) would be £6m down.O'Brien also > > gets what he wants - a transfer to West Ham. > >>>>>>>>> Dave > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 23/11/11, Dr Michael Benjamin <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> From: Dr Michael Benjamin <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: [LU] Miracles of miracles: > >>>>>>>>> To: "LEEDSLIST" <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, 23 November, 2011, 8:08 > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I agree with the Stoat entirely Whats more I'd sue O'Brian's > >>>>>>>>> arse off him. Not to mention a complaint about WHU and point > >>>>>>>>> deductions in the bargain. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> The words of the Stoat: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> O`Brien spoke to Leeds boss Simon Grayson last week and stated > >>>>>>>>> that he did not intend to ever play for Leeds again. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Grayson speaking at the weekend confirmed that he would never > >>>>>>>>> play for Leeds again and now Bates says as far as he is > >>>>>>>>> concerned he has resigned from the club. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Speaking in the Yorkshire Post > >>>>>>>>> <http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/onl > >>>>>>>>> y_reason_we_employ_o_brien_is_to_play_football_he_s_resigned_as > >>>>>>>>> _far_as_i_m_concerned_bates_1_3990672>, > >>>>>>>>> Bates said, "If you told the Yorkshire Post that you no longer > >>>>>>>>> wanted to write stories for them then I am sure your boss would > >>>>>>>>> take that as you having resigned from your employment at the > >>>>>>>>> Yorkshire Post. This is no different. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> "The only reason Leeds United employ Andy O`Brien is to play > >>>>>>>>> football for us. Now, he won`t do that then clearly he no > >>>>>>>>> longer wants to work for Leeds United. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> "To my mind, that means he has resigned his position. As far as > >>>>>>>>> I personally am concerned, Andy O`Brien has left the club and > >>>>>>>>> we have moved on. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> "We are looking forward without Andy O`Brien and the challenge > >>>>>>>>> for the other players is to come in and stake their claim. What > >>>>>>>>> happens in the future is what concerns me and not a player who > >>>>>>>>> doesn`t want to play for Leeds United." > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> It is expected that O`Brien will leave the club this week, > >>>>>>>>> either on loan or by the club terminating his contract allowing him > > to move on. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Read more: > >>>>>>>>> http://www.leeds.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=263301#ixzz1 > >>>>>>>>> eVufmmwH > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Dr Michael Benjamin, > >>>>>>>>> Community Psychiatrist > >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>> myRay: On-line Self-Help CBT > >>>>>>>>> http://www.myRay.com > >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>> Mental Health: > >>>>>>>>> http//www.MyDoctorExplains.com > >>>>>>>>> -------------------------------- Auditing || Quality Control > >>>>>>>>> http://www.MyDoctorExplains.com/alamo/ > >>>>>>>>> -------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>> Blog: > >>>>>>>>> http://www.DrMichaelBenjamin.com > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> Leedslist mailing list > >>>>>>>>> Info and options: > >>>>>>>>> http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, email [email protected] > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> Leedslist mailing list > >>>>>>>>> Info and options: > >>>>>>>>> http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, email [email protected] > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> Leedslist mailing list > >>>>>>>> Info and options: > >>>>>>>> http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, email [email protected] > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Leedslist mailing list > >>>>> Info and options: > >>>>> http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > >>>>> To unsubscribe, email [email protected] > >>>>> > >>>>> PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate > >>>> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Leedslist mailing list > > Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > > To unsubscribe, email [email protected] > > > > PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate > > > > > _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected] PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate
