DISCLAIMER: living in Spain, married to a spaniard, half spanish kids etc, thus been roused from lurking with this thread. :->
This recent line on Spain being boring and some being glad they lost (not just Dave Sutton below), criticism of their footballing style - if there was such a thing as footballing BLASPHEMY or luddite then this is it. Rather, it's more a case of simply turning on a team that have won too much lately i.e. there was no criticism of Spain's victories in '08 or '10 when they were the underdog and shedding their perennial loser bottler tag. We all tire of the same team winning too much (apart from our beloved LUFC). Recall that it was Zidane and France who put Spain out of the WC in 2006 BUT against a Spanish team which had HALF of the players who played on Sunday. Since then Spain changed their style a little i.e. they have had different styles and didn't do it, but this latter one has been SO successful. If it's not broke...? Possesion football works for them but yes they should start looking at the Bayern Munich way with more power in central midfield - which is exactly what Brazil did with Paulinho and Dias - which Busquets tries to do but has faded a lot lately.. Let's not forget also that Spain were KNACKERED from both the long season and having played ET + penalties just two days before. I still can't understand why those who go to the Confed don't take more B players and rest the older ones. But have they been boring? For me, absolutely not. Who remembers the tedium of France winning in '98 or '00 with Guivarche and Dugarry, with only ZZ to inject some quality? Or Greece in 2004, which was worse than anything Jack Charlton had the Rep playing in the 90s. Brazil in '94? Dire dire football. Would I rather watch Spain "mix it up" like England and try any number of unsuccessful champagne passes like Gerrard up in the air to Carroll? Erm, pass on that one (see what i did there... :->). It's not fair to mention England here of course, but they are almost a footballing opposite. In recent years i can't watch England play without constantly counting the number of consecutive passes they make to each other - it rarely gets above 3 or 4. When England wins playing like that, is it exciting? For England fans yes, but you'll know it'll get found out and as a neutral, i think it's a sh1t way to play and no, it's rarely exciting. Spain's possession football also suits the fact that a number of their players in the Spain first XI are actually not quite World Class but still they still have won: Torres (on the slide since 2008/9), Arbeloa (truly woeful the other night), Pique (good footballer, poor defender), Casillas (Mou was in large part right, although great at 1-on-1s), Navas has doesn't score goals and the final pass hasn't been great of late, then theres Valdés (a David James calamity every 5th match). Not to mention the fact that this is actually a VERY small team physically. Is it boring to see little guys dink their way past clodders in midfield and keeping the ball off them? It is FOOT ball afterall and anything that is not lamping a ball up to a beanpole donkey up front for a hopeful knockdown cannot be bad. Again, i'm biased, but the FC Barcelona of the last 4 years has been IMHO the best quality football there has ever been and if you're not excited by Messi or Villa then fek knows. Hasta Luego! :-> BMW > From: dsm...@dsmail.plus.com > To: c_bri...@hotmail.co.uk > Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 10:03:14 +0100 > CC: leedslist@gn.apc.org > Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil > > I see your point, but you are comparing a current day 2nd tier English club > with the World Champions. Well done to Spain and Barcelona for their > respective triumphs, but > they have created a bland rigid style with no option to change and > presumably no intention of ever trying to. (Whilst Pat Nevin's observations > were interesting, it doesn't change the fact that it's boring.) > This was clearly shown when they were losing 3-0 to Brazil the other night > and a change of tempo / style was needed and they weren't able to. A lot of > managers say that they concentrate on what their own team does and not worry > so much about the oppo. > I believe this idea to have faults. It's the team that can adapt best to > what the opposition is doing that bosses the game. Spain could not adapt to > what Brazil were throwing at them > and just continued as they were and went on to concede more goals. > > I don't consider myself audacious one bit, but the Spanish way which has > worked for them for so long is being replaced by a multi paced / styled > system as shown by the likes of Brazil and Bayern. > And the big point - it's great to watch! > > One or two players with 10% of the likes of Iniesta's quality would be > dragged down by the other donkeys in the team. Think big, we need a bunch of > them. I wouldn't sell my soul > though to finance or achieve this. > > Dave > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Briggs" <c_bri...@hotmail.co.uk> > To: <m...@myray.com> > Cc: "Sutton / Smail" <dsm...@dsmail.plus.com>; "Leeds List (Post to list)" > <leedslist@gn.apc.org> > Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 9:32 AM > Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil > > > How any of us has the audacity to deride the style of play that has brought > success to Barcelona / Spain, etc is laughable whilst we pay to watch woeful > professionals struggle to string together a handful of passes. > Whilst at times it can appear boring, how many of us have complained about a > players inability to play an incisive pass or merely keep procession, as > Rich W would say these are the basics and something that our former 'best' > (according to records) player so clearly lacked. > > I would willingly sell my soul to the devil to be able to see a player that > possesses 10% of Iniesta's ability and vision don a Leeds shirt, anyone who > thinks otherwise is more than welcome to wallow in mediocrity. > > > On 2 Jul 2013, at 08:32, "Dr Michael Benjamin" <m...@myray.com> wrote: > > > You are right > > The Barca era is slipping away > > It will just slowly fade. > > The Gemanic style is like Leeds's of the '70's > > > > Dr Michael Benjamin, > > Community Psychiatrist > > ------------------------------- > > myRay: On-line Self-Help CBT > > http://www.myRay.com > > http://www.myRay.org > > ------------------------------ > > Mental Health: > > http//www.MyDoctorExplains.com > > -------------------------------- > > Auditing || Quality Control > > http://www.MyDoctorExplains.com/alamo/ > > -------------------------------- > > Blog: > > http://www.DrMichaelBenjamin.com > > > > > > On 2 July 2013 10:17, Sutton / Smail <dsm...@dsmail.plus.com> wrote: > > > >> One man's poison is another man's medicine. I wouldn't mind the endless > >> passing game if it was tempered and balanced with other styles but from > >> start to finish Spain just bang on and on with > >> the same game. I rarely get further than the 10 minute mark watching > >> them. > >> All very cleaver sucking in the oppo etc, but dull to watch. It has made > >> them World Champions so I'll give them that. > >> Bayern for example are the contrast. They mix up so many different styles > >> and paces, they are great to watch. They can play the Spanish passing > >> style > >> for a bit, then the long ball for a bit etc etc. It's always changing > >> with > >> them. Let's not start on 1975 again please, that's all been said. > >> > >> Dave > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Murray" < > >> ianjamesmur...@hotmail.com> > >> To: "Sutton / Smail" <dsm...@dsmail.plus.com> > >> Cc: "Leeds List (Post to list)" <leedslist@gn.apc.org>; "Rob Gillard" < > >> rgill...@me.com> > >> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 1:04 AM > >> Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil > >> > >> > >> Really? So how should football be played. > >> > >> Yeah Barca and Spain don't have a 'plan B' but their 'plan A' is football > >> played well and is great to watch imho. Beats the long ball > >> play-it-up-to-the-big-man crap we have been dishing out for so long. > >> > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On 01/07/2013, at 20:05, "Sutton / Smail" <dsm...@dsmail.plus.com> wrote: > >> > >> I take great heart in seeing Spain (and Barcelona) lose. I have nothing > >>> against the country or club, but they do play the same endless boring > >>> boring passing game. I think opponents simply get bored > >>> or mesmerised playing them and fall into a trance. Maybe that's part of > >>> their plan? Brazil are much more of an exciting team to watch with so > >>> many > >>> different styles and pace changes to their game - not unlike Bayern. > >>> > >>> However, Pat Nevin did a very eye opening piece on the Spanish passing > >>> style which is well worth a look for those that haven't seen it. > >>> > >>> Very admirable perhaps, even so, still boring. I noticed even at 3-0 > >>> down > >>> the Spanish had no plan B, Plan A obviously wasn't working against > >>> Brazil. > >>> This was not a good example of Pat Nevin's observations as they were > >>> under > >>> heavy pressure last night which > >>> they aren't so used to. > >>> > >>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/**football/23024166<http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23024166> > >>> > >>> Dave > >>> > >>> > >>> ______________________________**_________________ > >>> Leedslist mailing list > >>> Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.** > >>> uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist<http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist> > >>> To unsubscribe, email > >>> leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.**org<leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org> > >>> > >>> MARCHING ON TOGETHER > >> > >> ______________________________**_________________ > >> Leedslist mailing list > >> Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.** > >> uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist<http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist> > >> To unsubscribe, email > >> leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.**org<leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org> > >> > >> MARCHING ON TOGETHER > > _______________________________________________ > > Leedslist mailing list > > Info and options: > > http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > > To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org > > > > MARCHING ON TOGETHER > > _______________________________________________ > Leedslist mailing list > Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org > > MARCHING ON TOGETHER _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
