On this bottler thing: I dont think either of us know 100% sure why someone doesnt win major titles, in tennis or golf, during a career.
There are instances where sports like these are dominated by an individual for quite some time. Ie in recent times, Federer. They are just BETTER players and that doesnt equal to the fact that the others didnt have the nerves to beat them. There are waaaay too many factors at play here to just call 1 as THE factor. Maybe calling someone a bottler AND making the call that he lost due to nerves is a bit rich? Viewing things in black and white sometimes doesnt show you the entire spectre that applies. I personally wouldnt call Henman a loser because he excelled at world level at what probably was his hobby. And set himself up for life in doing so. At the same time hes not a winner. So maybe hes not quite a winner but certainly not the loser either? Cheers, Eric On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 1:44 AM, Ian Murray <[email protected]>wrote: > No but he bottled the majors. No other reason he didn't win one. He had > the talent but nerves meant that he couldn't convert. Isn't that the very > definition of bottler? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 09/07/2013, at 0:11, "Alan Edgar" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > So you're gonna ignore his Ryder cup record ? > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On 8 Jul 2013, at 16:54, Ian Murray <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On 08/07/2013, at 23:52, "Alan Edgar" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> Goran was a better grass court player than Henman - by beating him he > reached his 3rd final. > >>> > >>> Just as the roof closing changed the final last year, the weather in > 2001 saved Goran - half an hour more and Henman would have won. Coming back > the following day was a whole new ball game. > >>> > >>> On a similar tack - Monty never won a golf major ... Is he a bottler ? > >> In a word: yes > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> On 8 Jul 2013, at 16:29, Ian Murray <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> Yeah they gathered to watch Henman, so fair enough 'Herman Hill'. But > they gathered to watch Murray all fortnight, so Murray mound. Yeah - if > they are there to watch Robson it's Robson ridge. It's a nickname. You make > some good points but this is total bobbins. > >>>> > >>>> He did bottle it. The year ivanesivic won he should have - but he > bottled it. He could win tour titles but he never had the mental strength > to win a slam - he was a choker and a bottler and that's just a plain fact > mate. > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> > >>>> On 08/07/2013, at 23:17, "Alan Edgar" <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Henman was the first player people gathered there to see - just > because he was a lesser player than Murray doesn't mean the name changes. > >>>>> > >>>>> If Laura robson wins more titles than Murray is it suddenly robson > ridge ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Henman didn't bottle it - he played according to his level, > maximising his talent. It wasn't quite enough, doesn't make him a loser. > >>>>> > >>>>> Any pro sportsman who gets to be top 5 has bags more bottle than > you, me or anyone else on this list - they couldn't get there without it. > >>>>> > >>>>> Both Henman & Murray have managed a decade or so each of totally > unreasonable pressure re Wimbledon magnificently. > >>>>> Without them you'd have had 20 more years of media weeping and > wailing about GB tennis for a fortnight before reverting to total > indifference for the other 50 weeks of the year. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>> > >>>>> On 8 Jul 2013, at 15:54, Ian Murray <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 08/07/2013, at 22:42, "Alan Edgar" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On the contrary - disrespectful to Henman to change it. > >>>>>> Nonsense. Was the hill there before Henman and has it been > officially called 'Herman hill'? > >>>>>>> If Grayson had won more than Revie would you accept Revie Rd > becoming Grayson Grove ? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Not if it had been officially called that - but that's completely > different to a media nickname. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Didn't think so. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Henman was the best since Perry - 60+ years. Murray wasn't around > then. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> He's been playing in wombledon for nearly 10 years hasn't he? I > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Murray is the best since Perry - 70+ years ... Didn't think the > maths would be so challenging. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> If your definition of a loser is someone who doesn't win a slam > then more than 99% of all pro tennis players are losers. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'd say someone who was talented enough to win a slam but doesn't > is a loser, yes. He undoubtedly could have won wombledon but he bottled it > every time. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It's a(nother) ridiculous assertion. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I don't think it is. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 8 Jul 2013, at 14:54, Ian Murray <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 08/07/2013, at 21:29, "Alan Edgar" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Bollocks! He is a miserable uncouth yob who lost to a true > sportsman. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> What on earth is your rationale for that ? !! > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Murray is a charming and witty interviewee, equally gracious in > defeat as in victory. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> The stupendous Djoko- Del potro SF should have been the Final. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> The final was exactly what the seeding dictated it should have > been - 1 v 2 in the world. > >>>>>>>>> DP did play great and made it a quality semi. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Must grudgingly admit that The Git did play well today, though. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Big of you. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I wouldnt see this as a british victory if I was scottish, why > would I? but > >>>>>>>>> then again I wouldnt see it as a scottish victory when the > english man won > >>>>>>>>> tour de france. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> If you'd written: > >>>>>>>>> "I wouldnt see this as a british victory if I was scottish, why > would I? but > >>>>>>>>> then again I wouldnt see it as a british victory when the > english man won > >>>>>>>>> tour de france.' > >>>>>>>>> then it would have made sense - even though I would 100% > disagree with you. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> You're not comparing like with like. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> It's a Brit win when Wiggins wins the Tour, a Brit win when > Murray wins Wimbledon and a Brit win when they both (while wearing Brit > kit) win gold in London 2012. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Let's hope all the Scots see this as a British victory - bet > they will not. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Only the bitter ones will not - the others will see it a win for > both Scotland & Britain. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Exactly. I think the real miserable bastards are the ones who > want him to lose. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Couldn't agree more. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I couldn't believe it when Sue effing Barker referred to > 'henman hill' when she interviewed him after. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Why ? It's been know as that ever sinbce the last century - the > name doesn't change just cos Murray won the tournament. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Because it was known as Henman Hill when everyone there was there > to support Henman. He is retired. It is disrespectful to Murray. Murray > Mound. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Now he WAS a loser. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Lost 4 Wimbledon semis - 3 to the world number 1s (Hewitt, > Sampras) and one to an inspired Goran who was saved by the weather. > >>>>>>>>> 2 other Slam semis - ranked 4 in the world. > >>>>>>>>> Gave us a decade of hope and excitement after previously having > to pray that Bates would maybe get to round 3 one year. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> He never won a slam. Yeah he won some tour titles but he was a > loser. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Best Brit player for 60+ years - wish I was that sort of loser > ... > >>>>>>>> Murray is. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Al > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> Leedslist mailing list > >>>>>>>>> Info and options: > http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, email [email protected] > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> MARCHING ON TOGETHER > _______________________________________________ > Leedslist mailing list > Info and options: > http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > To unsubscribe, email [email protected] > > MARCHING ON TOGETHER > _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected] MARCHING ON TOGETHER
