Bush and his unconstitutional war. Nothing we could do would make it
worse. So we should get out immediately and let them become the
authors of their own fate. If anything it would improve our
reputation. Even if it didn't improve worldwide perception of
America, it would stop the American government from violating our
Constitution, stop it from murdering people in Iraq, stop getting
Americans killed, stop the flood of money going from here to there,
and would allow them to figure out for themselves what how they'll
structure their own country, and what laws they'll live under.
--- In [email protected], "wgilbert02" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> All i've asked is for your opinion as to what would happen if we
> pulled out. You either can't answer or won't, I really don't know.
> No one here has answered this qustion. All I get is a bunch of
> theoretical BS about the illegitemacy of the war. OK. What is the
> solution. Everyone here says PULL OUT. OK, what happens then. How
> do you think it will affect us, our perception worldwide, our
> military preparedness in the region, etc. You don't have to become
> a condescending wiseass and look up the libertarian 'rule book' to
> answer a practical situational question with a theoretical argument,
> just because someone has a disagreement with you.
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "mark robert" <colowe@> wrote:
> >
> > If you agree with "everything I said", why are you asking?
> >
> > How can the consequences of continuing abuse/aggression be
> > anything but continued abuse/aggression - AND MORE HARM? If you
> > mess up and cause a problem, you don't solve it by continuing the
> > mistake. A solution does not usually consist of continuing the
> > problem. A solution usually consists of something quite
> > different. A solution usually consists of solving the problem.
> > Solving the problem usually consists of stopping the problem.
> > Stopping the problem is not usually accomplished by not stopping
> > the problem. (Redundant, yes; but apparently necessary.)
> >
> > Your questioning of such obvious fundamentals implies you don't
> > agree. So the more efficient conversation would center around
> > this: What do YOU think would happen after a pull-out and why
> > would (any of) it be a reason to stay?
> >
> > If you are expecting to find some excuse for staying, asking
> > others to describe/predict all the specific kinds of harm that
> > will likely continue after a pull out is an exercise in futility;
> > you won't find one. Whatever the list of specific harms may be,
> > it would likely only consist of "more of the same and worse" and
> > would only serve as a basis for pulling out. Any "basis" for
> > staying that I have heard consists of circular reasoning: "we
> > should stay because we are there".
> >
> > -Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > ************
> > {American jurors have complete Constitutional authority to vote
> > "not guilty" based on nothing more than a disagreement with the
> > case, no matter the evidence - despite the judge's instructions.
> > There is absolutely no obligation to vote "guilty" to arrive at a
> > unanimous verdict. Get on a jury, stand your ground, and fulfill
> > its other main purpose: to counteract abusive government and
> > unjust lawsuits.
> > See www.fija.org
> > [Please adopt this as your own signature.] }
> >
> > -----------------
> >
> >
> > I agree with everything you have said here. Everyone is arguing
> > over the BS reasons that ole George gave for invading. I too
> > thought it was crap. My logic herein is not to simply spend the
> > rest of eternity crying over the pretext for war. I would rather
> >
> > argue over what should be done. ABSOLUTLEY NO ONE here has
> > answered
> > what would happen if we left Iraq right now. I've wanted someone
> > to
> > explain what the consequences are of leaving and all I get are
> > analogies to robbing a damn bank, told that 1 american life and 1
> >
> > american tax dollar is not worth freeing 30 million people (which
> > is
> > not what I think we are doing in Iraq), that every war since WWII
> >
> > has been illegal and unconstitutional (I agree with some of
> > this),
> > and more analogies and metaphores about Germany, etc. All i'm
> > disagreeing with is what should be done now, so please spare me
> > the
> > lecture on the 'illegal war in Iraq.' I get it, i'm on your side.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "mark robert" <colowe@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > William,
> > >
> > > Regarding the Iraq War
> > > The ends do not justify the means, especially when the original
> > > end was a lie, when the means is war/death, and when the
> > revised
> > > end claims to justify the original - and a continuation of an
> > > endless mean. For a little clarity and perspective, try
> > applying
> > > the govt "ethics"/"logic" on a smaller scale. A person trying
> > to
> > > justify the continuation of his mistake on the fact that it WAS
> > a
> > > mistake, was HIS mistake, was a BAD mistake, and has been going
> > > on for a long time, is beyond most people's level of
> > > comprehension. Yet somehow many seem to be able to accept this
> > > same rationale on a national scale. There is nothing rational
> > or
> > > ethical about continuing this war/mistake. Unjustified
> > aggression
> > > does not defend further aggression any more than past spouse
> > > abuse defends more spouse abuse. Nor does harm resulting from
> > > past abuse defend further abuse, which is another "nonsanism"
> > > (even more insane, if that's possible) commonly heard coming
> > from
> > > state/war supporters.
> > >
> > > I know you are new here, but if you are gonna get "personally
> > > offended" so easily, put on your steel-toed shoes. No one here
> > > walks on egg shells for anybody, or avoids sensitive toes.
> > >
> > > American Libertarianism is precisely that. Just like our
> > > constitution, the LP / philosophy does not value world
> > domination
> > > over domestic goals. If a chance to spread liberty abroad
> > > presents itself, I'm sure any Libertarian would jump on it; but
> > > not if it comes at the expense of liberty at home. It's really
> > a
> > > very simple matter of basic priorities: America comes first. Do
> > > you really think we Americans are in Iraq because we love them
> > > more than ourselves??
> > >
> > > -Mark
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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