John, it IS you that advocates continued initiation, and credible threat of initiation, of physical force upon the person or justly held possessions of another!
CONSISTENCY to society's 'physical aggression truce' (aka NAP 'non aggression principle' ZAP 'zero aggression principle' and so on) is not just an essential LIBERTARIAN principle, it is the foundation for liberty and justice for ALL! An underlying principle in human action is an innate `physical aggression truce' which is also the underlying principle for UNIVERSAL libertarianism. PleaseSee: What's at the Heart of What Libertarians are Selling? at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/30419 This truce gives `self-ownership' (exclusive right to determine use and disposition) by each individual person an essential material protection. That can also be phrased as: Reciprocal Physical Comprehensive Autonomy for each and every person. AlsoSee FlashAnimationAt- http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.html Universal liberty's underlying 'physical aggression truce' principle (aka NAP/ZAP and so on) thus accommodates a just and broad array of choices by `self owning' free moral agents, except for the INITIATION, or credible threat of initiation, of physical force against the person or justly held possessions of another (note: the ban on these uses of physical force does NOT apply to all other uses) see: Your Freedom & the Rights of Others at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/22990 So, what would morally justify a person INITIATING, or doing a credible threat to initiate, physical force against the person or justly held possessions of another; AND, why should this `truce' EXCEPTION be allowable over the truce exceptions that may be wanted by someone else? 'Real world' experiment in LIBERTARIAN community became famous at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertyProspects/message/2569 Look for me (especially Sunday eve) as: TxLiberty on Yahoo Messenger & MSN Messenger Terry Liberty Parker on Skype (supports multiple platforms like MAC & Linux along with Windows) and maybe AustinLiberty on AIM 'PeerCasting' continuously now as 'AustinLibertyInterNet' via 'Yellow Pages' at www.PeerCast.org Distributed networking like www.PeerCast.org may enable people to create an alternative to govt licenced & controlled broadcasting. That can be useful when promoting things that challenge, or may be inconvenient to, established authority :) Please test this (at various times as needed) as an audience member (or even another 'caster) and let me know of your experience(s). ExploreAt http://www.peercast.org/ get a very small self installing program then select 'yellow pages' to find 'AustinLibertyInterNet' webcasting as an experiment by me in 'distributed networking' then please let me know of your experience -Terry Liberty Parker AND Find More Free On-demand Playbacks On-line via AustinLibertyInterNet Radio/TV at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertyProspects/links VoiceCall 1.512.462.1776 every Sunday 6:30pm (central) to ? I host informal discussion to which all are welcome who want to consider ideas & issues of Liberty & Justice for ALL in Hickory St Grill at 8th & Congress, Austin TX Look for me, MyPicAt http://profiles.yahoo.com/txliberty --- In [email protected], "John Stroebel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [ModeratorNote: > > Yahoo (not me) shunted this message in to a 'spam' que for reasons unkown to me. > > John, did you perhaps post this message to multiple addresses? > > While this message was posted hours ago, I have just now discovered it, and released it for publication in the forum. > > I'll respond, as a poster not a moderator, to the message content later when I have a chance. > > -TLP ] > > > I never world Terry. I do not believe in reneging on treaties, abandoning > people in need when we are so wealthy a country, ending public education or > any of the rest. I believe the Government SHOULD provide for those things, > and until someone shows me a solid reason otherwise that proves to be more > compelling than providing those things for the public, I reject them. > > As for providing for the national defence, that is covered in the > Constitution. > > But Terry, reversing a question is a well used tactic in debate, isn't it. > IT taken you off the hook in answering and diverts the discussion to the > disadvantage of the person asking the original question. > > It is not ME who endorses cutting taxes entirely, or throwing those in need > to the wolves, that would be the people posting here. > > Now, care to answer my question? > > > On 7/2/06, Terry L Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > John, since you would not advocate initiating, or doing a credible > > threat to initiate, physical force upon the person or justly held > > possessions of another, how would YOU do that which you regard as > > needed? > > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > > Humanity's Last Best Hope > > at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/48985 > > > > > > --- In [email protected] <Libertarian% 40yahoogroups.com>, "John > > Stroebel" > > <john.stroebel@> wrote: > > > > > > OK Stephen, let's leave all that aside for a moment. Tell me this: > > how do > > > you propose running this country, building highways, caring for the > > sick, > > > keeping our treaties and agreements and providing or the national > > > defence....and education the population without taxing the citizens? > > > > > > Now please, don't give me any theory BS....like it should be this > > or is > > > should not be that....just tell me how a Libertarian President, > > should one > > > ever be elected, do these things? > > > > > > It seems to be the weak link in your entire platform. > > > > > > > > > On 7/1/06, steven linnabary <linnabary51@> wrote: > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "John Stroebel" <john.stroebel@ <john.stroebel% > > 40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well Mr Candidate, lack of education and stupidity, the word > > YOU choose > > > > for > > > > > good people you know NOTHING about, is apples and oranges. Do > > me a > > > > > favor....speak with a little dignity. Learn respect for these > > people. We > > > > > have far too many politicians who look down their noses at > > groups of > > > > > Americans. > > > > > > > > Huh?? I am not a candidate for anything at this time. > > > > > > > > My reference to "poor stupid Indians" was a condescending swipe > > at those > > > > that think they know what is best for other people. I think you > > know this. > > > > YOU chose to take the reference out of context. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What does that 'hang around the fort' nonsence apply to" The > > Ute? Tell > > > > me > > > > > something,....WHAT do you personally know about the WHite Mesa > > Ute that > > > > I > > > > > haven't told you? > > > > > > > > Maybe nothing. I suppose it is theoretically possible that the Ute > > > > leadership doesn't "hang around the fort" seeking bigger handouts > > from > > > > their > > > > overseers. > > > > > > > > > > > > My guess would b 'squat'. It amazes me when people decide > > > > > what is best for others based on something they read or learned > > in a > > > > > theory....like 'all blacks are lazy' or 'all SIcilians are > > criminals'. > > > > That > > > > > is a pretty good example of ignorance. Before you cry over the > > word, > > > > check > > > > > the definition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > AHA!! YOU said "all blacks are lazy" and "all sicilians are > > criminals"! > > > > > > > > Out of context, of course. And I know that is not what you were > > trying to > > > > say. But two can play this game. I'll make a deal with you. You > > don't > > > > take me out of context, actually listen to what I say, and I'll > > do the > > > > same > > > > with you. Let's show each other a little respect. OK? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh...not having experience and being an ass....apples and > > oranges. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As an aside, I helped to install the "American Indian" plank to > > the LP > > > > Platform back in '85. Larry Dodge actually wrote it, but it went > > a long > > > > way > > > > toward making Russell Means a Libertarian candidate for POTUS > > in '87. > > > > > > > > > > > > PEACE > > > > Steven R. Linnabary, Treasurer > > > > Franklin County Libertarian Party > > > > (614) 891-8841 > > > > P.O.Box#115; Blacklick, OH 43004-0115 > > > > > > > > "When you make peaceful revolution impossible, you make violent > > revolution > > > > inevitable" John F. Kennedy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ******************************************************************* > > > Are YOU Preparing For The November '06 Elections NOW??? > > > > > > ******************************************************************* > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Save-The-USA/ > > > > > > It is time to do something about all this! > > > > > > ******************************************************************* > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > ******************************************************************* > Are YOU Preparing For The November '06 Elections NOW??? > > ******************************************************************* > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Save-The-USA/ > > It is time to do something about all this! > > ******************************************************************* > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------ Yahoo! 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