From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hogarth
On Jan 18, 2008 11:48 PM, Bob Giramma <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:evil_spock%40hotmail.com> com> wrote: > ... > I'm confident someone out there is thinking I should blame the government, > not the illegal immigrants. How prescient of you. > Sure. Great. We're on the same side, then. BOB: Libertarians are all on the same side in forming views and policies based on individual liberty. I just reject the idea that there is only one path to liberty, and that issues are all black and white. There are conflicting angles on many issues. > But the government acts according to the > will of the voters... Maybe on your home planet, but not on the world I come from! BOB: I respectfully disagree. The current system is the result of the democratic marketplace. The Founders were wary of too much democracy, which is seen in their various writings, including the enumerated powers and Bill of Rights in the Constitution. We have a welfare state because voters want it and vote for politicians to provide it, yet I can find no authority -- ZERO -- in the constitutional contract. When we blame government, we are ultimately blaming the will of the voters who asked for that government. > In any case, the welfare > state isn't going away anytime soon, so the blame game argument is purely > academic. The welfare state exists, and illegal immigrants tend to use it. ... TEND? You talk about the 'blame game argument', but you base your opposition to illegal immigration on the fact that some people who illegally immigrate use the welfare state? BOB: My "blame game" comment is associated with blaming government, something all libertarians do, often with no regard for the fact that we have government of the people, by the people, for the people. Sheesh. Let's fight the real enemy - of immigrants *and* citizens -t he government - and not fall intot he trap of fighting each other which only *strengthens* the government. BOB: I don't know if I posted it to this list, but my proposed policy for illegal immigration does not rely on a wall or other extreme measures of border enforcement. I want a virtual wall around the welfare state that prohibits illegal immigrants from using any taxpayer funded services. Government has a bad habit of taking poor people and creating ghettos for them, and I don't want ghettoization of poor foreigners. I have only minor problems with people who come to America illegally and support themselves without taxpayer handouts. My main point is doing what makes frees me from subsidizing poverty. That seems consistent with libertarian values applied pragmatically rather than idealistically. -- Susan Hogarth http://www.collieth <http://www.colliething.com> ing.com <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=24814/grpspId=1705060682/msgId=58719/stime=1201054332/nc1=3848644/nc2=5170404/nc3=499021 4> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
