+1 Tim & Viktor.

Many people with this sort of background and Java web frameworks too
find difficult to accept that we don't do MVC. Also they find
difficult to accepts XML in Scala Snippets. When I presented Scala &
Lift at Transylvania JUG I got the same concerns ... "What? ... markup
in Scala code" ? ... I realized that snippets are very often
misunderstood. They are NOT "controllers" .. they are simple
constructs to allow dynamic markup to be injected in the template. Of
course one can abuse anything in any framework but this is besides the
point. Scala is not Java as Tim said and Scala + XML makes perfect
sense to me. Secondly people argue a lot having data models aware of
the representation of the view - such as a Field to know how to render
itself in a form etc. Personally I think that dumb objects holding
nothing but setter/getters/equals/hashcode just moves you away from
the OOP value. Having objects more context aware and hold the
knowledge on how to represent themselves makes a lot of sense to me,
and in practice I think this proved to be quite valuable. I accept
that many people think that MVC is the Holly Grail, but I don't
believe that ... and I think most people really using Lift don't
believe that either.


On Oct 22, 11:21 am, Timothy Perrett <timo...@getintheloop.eu> wrote:
> Guys,
> Im confused  - Scala is not Java. This my friends, is a very good  
> thing. You cant expect to start a language and be able to use all the  
> advanced features right away.... I doubt you were a meta-programming  
> ninja when learning ruby!
> Getting back on topic, I read the original link and I admit, it made  
> me chuckle somewhat - the author kept referring to so-called "rails  
> bashing" and then quoted a performance benchmark statement as being  
> "rails bashing"; it is quite obviously a factual statement rather than  
> anything aggressive. When your a new framework, people want reasons to  
> entertain you and comparing against existing tools is the only way to  
> do this.
> Regarding his comments on templating - perhaps its a personal  
> preference, but I cant help feeling that he slightly didnt get the  
> full picture as he only appears to have explored crudify rather than  
> the full binding possibilities.
> Cheers, Tim
> On 22 Oct 2009, at 07:02, ngocdaothanh wrote:
> > jlist9,
> > This is a Lift group, but I have to say I feel the same about Scala.
> > I had to ask for advice here:
> >http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb/browse_thread/thread/a588f997a...
> > Scala may help me to get my work done for the day. But I don't feel
> > happy with Scala. Scala makes me feel I'm a slave all the day to
> > machines (or Scala itself!).
> > On Oct 22, 2:13 pm, jlist9 <jli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> override def validations = validPriority _ :: super.validations
> >> This is a more of a comment about Scala than one about Lift - this  
> >> does
> >> look cryptic to me. And this is just one of the simpler syntax that  
> >> confuses
> >> people, who are new to the language. And I'm one of them.
> >> I understand that you don't have to learn all the tricks/syntax to  
> >> start
> >> coding in Scala but you do have to understand it when you read
> >> source code of libraries written by someone with much more advanced
> >> language skills.
> >> In David's book he says "After more than two years of coding  
> >> Scala, ...
> >> My brain has finally stopped hurting." This sounds like a very high
> >> barrier to entry.
> >> I'm just wondering why Scala has to be so complicated. I'm sure a lot
> >> of things in Scala have their reasons but at the mean time I also
> >> suspect that many of the odd things are there to reduce
> >> typing, which is advertised as one of the advantages of this  
> >> language -
> >> conciseness. (I could be very wrong due to my lack of understanding.)
> >> If the latter is true, I feel that I'd rather type a little more to  
> >> make the
> >> code easier to read.
> >> Just feeling a little frustrated learning Scala. I think it's much
> >> easier learning
> >> Java. Not much surprise. Not sure if anyone shares my experience
> >> (and opinion, if there is one.)
> >> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Randinn <rand...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>http://localhost3000.de/2009/10/a-quick-glance-at-lift/
> >>> The site above is a blog post from a Rails developer, he had some  
> >>> good
> >>> and bad things to say about Lift and since I do not know enough to
> >>> debate with him I thought I'd post it here.
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