Linux-Advocacy Digest #248, Volume #30 Wed, 15 Nov 00 08:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (Stuart Fox)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years? (Rasputin)
Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux? (mlw)
Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years? (Rasputin)
Re: RedHat BugList Summary (Marc Richter)
Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion. (Tore Lund)
Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion. (Tore Lund)
Re: The Sixth Sense (Giuliano Colla)
Re: I WANT WIN2k drivers! (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: The Sixth Sense (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: The Sixth Sense (Chris Ahlstrom)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stuart Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 11:58:35 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > uptime.exe
> >
>
> I wasn't aware of its existence on the NT box (I only had
> used it on *nix), but as soon as I read your posting, I
> tried uptime on our file server box (NT4 sp4) and on the PC
> on my desk.
> Server result:
>
> C:\>uptime
> The name specified is not registered as an
> internal or external command, operable program or batch
> file.
>
> The PC on my desk runs NT4 sp4 Italian version, so the
> message was in Italian, but the content was exactly the
> same.
>
> It appears that MS isn't so eager to have users measure
> uptime of their stuff, isn't it?
>
It was never included in the original product, it was first released
last year. It's available for download at
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/release.asp?releaseid=15849
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: 15 Nov 2000 12:13:57 GMT
On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 04:04:46 GMT, Chad Myers wrote:
>
>"Donovan Rebbechi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:22:14 -0800, Bruce Schuck wrote:
>>
>> >Help.
>> >
>> >Go to the command line and type help.
>>
>> I get "bad command or filename" when I type help.
>
>What OS? Either you're lying, or you misspelled help.
Windows 98.
>What is a new user (someone likely to need help)
>going to type first? Help or man?
Completely irrelevant, because the target audience for the manpages is
not the "new user".
The new user would not "type" anything first, they would choose help from
their GUI menu, which starts kdehelp on my desktop.
>Help, of course. It's common sense, something that
>seems to be consistently forgotten in Linux.
Explain why choosing help from the main menu is counter-intuitive, or not
"common sense".
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rasputin)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:22:26 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <Matthias Warkus> wrote:
>It was the 14 Nov 2000 09:16:56 -0600...
>...and [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > I hope that the two projects merge in the future in a language less
>> > sucky than either C or C++.
>>
>> Agreed. They should write it in Java. That way, KDE and GNOME could run on
>> an array of embedded applications (such as the Palm pilot).
>
>They already do without Java (essentially, all you need is a platform
>that runs Linux, and most embedded systems do).
I think the ideal goal of any desktop environment should be language
independance. Java has bindings to CORBA, as does almost everything else.
Sure, you take a performance hit, but for GUIs that's a bit of a non-issue.
Any CPU-intensive stuff can be written in C/C++/ whatever seems
appropriate.
The idea of One True Language / One True Toolkit has been touted for a
looong time now, as part of the 'let's beat BillG' philosophy.
Diversity is what separates us form Visual Basic coders.
--
Rasputin.
Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns.
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 07:24:47 -0500
Goldhammer wrote:
>
> On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:09:34 -0500,
> mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Goldhammer wrote:
>
> >> Actually, I didn't offer my own conclusion on the matter, rather,
> >> I referred you to the writings of others.
> >
> >I have read the writings of others, and seldom do they make a good
> >point. I started this thread to hear/debate opinions.
>
> But you see, no matter what one comes up with as an exception
> to the rule that 'C is a subset of C++', it can always be
> argued that this exception is inconsequential, and that,
> for all practical intents and purposes, C is a subset of C++.
>
> Do you want an opinion on this? Ok. C++ is not a superset of C.
> Why? I have seen some legal C which doesn't work in C++. Are these
> examples obscure? Yes. Can you argue that they are inconsequential?
> Probably. Then does that mean C++ really is a superset of C? No.
Consider this, were the differences between ANSI C and K&R big? To some,
yes they were. Some K&R code did not compile in ANSI C. There were all
sorts of phobias. For all practical reasons, however, ANSI C was "often"
a super set of a particular implementation of K&R C. With very few
exceptions, code which did not compile, due to increased strictness of
the compiler. Same goes for C++.
If a compiler enforces rules which a previous compiler did not, yet
supports the same language and constructs within the language, is it not
considered to be the same language? For instance, if one adds
"-pedantic-errors" to a compile line in gcc, is it no longer a C
compiler?
The differences between C and C++ compilers from the same platform and
vendor often have fewer differences than different C compilers from
different platforms and vendors. Do differences between C compilers
across platforms mean the one is, and one is not, a C compiler? Of
course not.
As such, C++ can and does compile C code more structly. C++ also
supports some very nice additional features such as classes,
inheritence, virtual functions from a compiler handled virtual table,
automatic cleanup of variables, etc.
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rasputin)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:23:43 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <James Hutchins> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > I hope that the two projects merge in the future in a language less
>> > sucky than either C or C++.
>>
>> Agreed. They should write it in Java.
<snip>
>Java? Please, NO! I have a NEED for SPEED!! I don't think even hotspot can
>make up for the performance hit I'd take with java. When doing complex
>analyses on up to 10 gigs of byte-sized time series data, even a 15% speed
>hit is significant. So why accept it when you can just use C++?
For that matter, why are you using GUI toolkits to do
complex analyses at all?
--
Rasputin.
Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marc Richter)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: RedHat BugList Summary
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:57:31 -0500
On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:14:06 -0800, Bruce Schuck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Ketil Z Malde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> >> As far as I can tell, Debian has zero security bugs for 2.2.
>>
>> > Security Alerts from 2000
>>
>> Yes, and they're all fixed, it seems.
>
>There were so many I didn't check if there were fixes for all.
>
>
What kills me is this idea that discovering bugs in any software is bad.
You can't fix what you don't know is broken.
Hiding and pretending that bugs and exploits don't exist don't make
them magically go away.
It seems that opponents of Open Source laugh at the number of reported
bugs and exploits, without realizing that it's only by admitting flaws
and fixing them that software gets better. And just because
proprietary software houses don't give full access to all discovered bugs
doesn't mean that they don't exist. Man, it's become a matter of common
practice in the gaming community to accept that the first release or 2
of any major product will more than likely contain showstoppers. (Vampire,
Diablo 2, anything from Interplay, ad naseum) The customers bitch, moan
and deal with it...but can't do anything until the company gets it's act
together and writes patches.
If you're naive enough to shrug off the thousands of bugs in a
complicated product like Linux or Windows 2000 or, for that matter,
anything bigger than a small script or utility, then you're a bit of
a fool. If you think that because you don't get to see them because
you can't see the code somehow makes them not impact you, then you're
a blind fool as well.
>
>
--
Marc A. Richter I&R Deployed Support
The contents of this message express only the sender's opinion.
This message does not necessarily reflect the policy or views of
my employer, Merck & Co., Inc. All responsibility for the statements
made in this Usenet posting resides solely and completely with the
sender.
------------------------------
From: Tore Lund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion.
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:29:24 +0100
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> You're pulling this out of your ass, aren't you?
While we're on the topic, please trim your sig.
--
Tore Lund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: Tore Lund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion.
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:39:57 +0100
Les Mikesell wrote:
>
> "Tore Lund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > > > > Under
> > > > > > Windows best thing would be install new disk with the software
> that
> > > > > > comes with it (partitioning program) and re-install from the image
> CD
> > > > > > included with the machine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then it could take weeks to install all your software on top of
> that.
> > > >
> > > > This is completely trivial to do under Windows 95/98 (not sure about
> > > > Win2K). You have your old disk in C: and a new, formatted disk in D:.
> > > > Make sure all files are visible in Windows Explorer, then copy and
> paste
> > > > everything EXCEPT c:\windows\win386.swp to the new disk. That's it.
> > > > You can now swap disks, move jumpers and boot again.
> > > >
> > > > (Note: This is a VERY brief description for people who understand
> what
> > > > they are doing. But it really is that simple...)
> > >
> > > And you just ignore all those "can't open" file errors during such a
> > > copy and hope it isn't anything you need? Anything running or
> > > open will fail to copy.
> >
> > Hmmm. There are no such messages so I believe you are wrong here.
> >
> > But if you know these things, maybe you can tell me why the copy and
> > paste operation outlined above should behave differently from "cp -a" in
> > Linux? Conceptually, they should be doing the same thing.
>
> First, the invisible boot files (I've forgotten the names) have to be in a
> certain place that only 'format /s' or 'sys' knows how to do.
Sure, I did say that disk D: was formatted. Of course we use FORMAT /S
or SYS. In addition, hidden files will be copied if they are made
visible in Windows Explorer.
> Second,
> Windows, like DOS before it, naturally locks files in use against
> another open (the bane of backups).
Windows, like DOS before it, is capable of opening files SHARED.
> So, all the running programs
> and any data files they might have open will refuse to copy.
Since when has it been impossible to copy running programs? I just now
copied NETSCAPE.EXE with no complaints from Win2K. Strictly for your
benefit I even fired up my old AT running DOS 5.00 and tried to copy a
running program. No problem at all - naturally.
Listen, I can agree that there *might* be problems with copying active
and/or locked files. (Though I have not encountered them.) What I
wonder about is the essential difference between Windows and Linux in
this respect. A Linux box is chock full of demons running in the
background. How do I know that these will not cause the same sort of
problem? If there is something about the "cp -a" command or Linux in
general that prevents this, I'd like to hear about it. (My own man
pages are for FreeBSD and do not include an -a switch for cp, so I don't
know precisely what it does.)
--
Tore Lund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:56:26 GMT
Bruce Schuck wrote:
[snip]
>
> Tsk Tsk. That Press Release is for "Netscape Navigator Personal Edition",
> which is not Netscape Navigator the free edition.
>
> In fact, just 42 days earlier they announced a free version of Netscape 2.0
> beta for download:
>
> http://home.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease48.html
>
[sniped other mention of free beta versions]
>
> Netscape was always free in one form or another.
Yes, it has always been free in BETA EVALUATION version.
Given IE reliability and security which has never gone
beyond the pre-alpha stage you may be correct in making the
comparison.
But final release software, was not for free. I did pay for
it, because I'm aware of the risks you run when you connect
your enterprise computers to the Internet. It appears that
my point of view was widely shared because Netscape revenues
from license selling for both server and client software
totaled $100 million on the third quarter of 1996:
http://home.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease270.html
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: I WANT WIN2k drivers!
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:57:51 GMT
Quantum Leaper wrote:
>
> "Milton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 07:51:04 +1000, "steve erntner"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >how hard is it to get drivers for aztech sound cards???
> >
> > In Linux, it's relatively simple.
> > http://lhd.zdnet.com/db/searchproduct.cgi?_catid=12
> >
> Linux does seem to support alot of discontinued products.
That's because some of the users who have these products
write the drivers and then give them back to the
community. In any case, you can make the same
statement (support for discontinued products) about
Windoze 95/98. Such support is a good thing. Not
everyone can or wants to ante up for the latest and
greatest hardware.
>
> > >all i want are win2k drivers for em...but do they exist?
> nooooooooooooooooo
> > >im about to break down and cry
> >
> > Don't use second-rate OS's and you won't be easily disappointed.
>
> He shouldn't have bought from a second rate sound card company, Aztech went
> out of business over a year ago.
Sounds like worse than second-rate to me!
In any case, I went through a problem with SoundBlaster Live!
on Win2K. Surely they aren't second rate! The funny thing
is, I know that SB Live! now has a Win 2K driver that supports
the nifty features of that card, but I just haven't had
any reason to bother with downloading the driver. Spend too
much time in Linux.
Chris
--
HEADLINE if Bush/Gore shared the Presidency:
GORE, BUSH AGREE ON ABORTION
Tipper doing fine post-operative
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:59:51 GMT
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> BTW, the reason that NT4 wraps earlier is not because it uses a smaller
> value, but becuase the timer resolution of the uptime is smaller. 1000ths
> of seconds versus 100ths of seconds.
What, they couldn't use the FILETIME structure of their own
Win32 API to hold a long high-resolution timestamp?
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:03:01 GMT
Les Mikesell wrote:
>
> "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:wVdQ5.126634$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, MS underwent a big effort to undermine this joke,
> > > blackmailing OEM's and playing other nasty tricks.
> > > Can you tell why?
> >
> > Microsft gave away IE because Netscape gave their product away for free
> you
> > twit.
Wrong, Netscape sold it (for around $35, if I remember right) until
M$ decided to crush their competitor.
> Why should that be a problem for anyone, much less Microsoft with
> all their other products? Why should it bother them to see someone
> succeed with a cross-platform product that actually followed
> standards?
Netscape was no great standard follower either, though better
than IE.
The latest Mozilla project looks pretty promising.
Chris
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:04:53 GMT
Les Mikesell wrote:
>
> > > > > Isn't it still impossible to completely turn off active-x in IE?
> > > >
> > > > Of course it's possible. And easy. And you can turn it on and off for
> > > > trusted/untrusted sites so you can leave it on for internal corporate
> > > sites
> > > > and turn it off for all others.
> > >
> > > Has this been fixed?
> > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0%2C4586%2C2322425%2C00.html
> > >
> > > and is the problem mentioned here about anyone being able
> > > to redistribute a buggy applet signed by Microsoft true?
> > >
> http://archives.indenial.com/hypermail/ntbugtraq/1999/March1999/0057.html
> >
> > Sure. But as I said, scripting can be turned off for unknown sites.
>
> Careful there - as usual you are putting too much trust in the wrong place.
> That last one is a buggy applet actually distributed and signed by
> Microsoft.
> Is Microsoft an 'unknown' site for you? You can fix this bug, but anyone
> else
> can send it back to you and if you trust Microsoft it will open the hole
> again.
Client-side security doesn't work.
------------------------------
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