Linux-Misc Digest #79, Volume #19 Thu, 18 Feb 99 03:13:13 EST
Contents:
ANNOUNCE: Kernel Traffic Weekly Newsletter #6 Available ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: $KDEDIR and kdm_on (hazzmat)
Format question? ("jmort")
Re: Source versus RPMs (Marco Tephlant)
Re: big endian -> little endian converter (Rob Komar)
Re: Best version of Netscape 4.5 (Paul Taylor)
Re: Internet and ppp problem (Micha� Kuratczyk)
Re: what is linux (James Russell)
Do inittab programs dump CORE and if so where? (Zing Zing Awungshi Shishak)
Re: Lexmark Printers (5700) (Jerry Lapham)
Re: Help unremovable file (Mark Skouson)
Programming for ISA card ("Rick Wheeler")
printing a header (roe)
Re: Advanced RAM usage question... ("Michael Ferguson")
Re: KDE? Gnome? ... confused (Bill Blarg)
User "shutdown" of L2.0.34 (Mavi Gozler)
LILO woes: LI - stop ("A.G.")
Re: Best Free Unix? (why FreeBSD?) (W Gerald Hicks)
Re: Best Free Unix? (why FreeBSD?) (brian moore)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Kernel Traffic Weekly Newsletter #6 Available
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 05:30:35 GMT
Hi,
Kernel Traffic, a weekly discussion of some of the activities on the
linux-kernel mailing list, has put issue #6 at <http://www.kt.opensrc.org>
Enjoy!
Zack
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: hazzmat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: $KDEDIR and kdm_on
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 06:20:50 GMT
hello,
I don't know if this is going to shed a lot of light --but here
are some things to check and try. If you installed parts of KDE to some
directory other than /opt/kde then you could have errors in the startup
of 'startkde' and KDM as well. It seems that you _correctly_ put KDE in
the /opt/kde directory....hmmm
/etc/X11/xdm/Xsetup_0 is a very important file for KDM . It should look
like this:
#!/bin/sh
# $XConsortium: Xsetup_0,v 1.3 93/09/28 14:30:31 gildea Exp $
#/usr/X11R6/bin/xconsole -geometry 480x130-0-0 -daemon -notify -verbose
-fn fixed -exitOnFail
#/usr/X11R6/bin/xbanner
/usr/bin/env KDEDIR=/opt/kde /opt/kde/bin/kdmdesktop
I'm no programmer, but it looks like this last line explicitly states
the directory where bash is supposed to find kdm. You invoked kdm from
/root with the path /opt/kde/bin/kdm_on -- and it ran , and it exited,
so
1) it seems you installed KDE to /opt/kde.
2)therefore, unless you somehow installed KDE components in different
/directories of the filesystem tree, then
3)the line of the above file is _incomplete_ (w/respect to the location
of KDEDIR) --in your version of it
4)Or, it is some kind of crazy search path problem.
My guess is that the line was left incomplete (KDEDIR not specified.
That way, someone who wants to put KDE in ~/kde or /usr/local/kde could
fill in their appropriate info. And that fix would be easy: just fix
the line . It seems alot less likely that you installed the packages,
some to /opt/kde, some in /usr/local, and so on , but one can never
assume... That leaves the possible search path issue........
What follows is sheer speculation bordering on fantasy....KDM is a
log-in screen; so, since no-one is logged in yet, the bash shell's
search path is small. Look in /etc/profile for the PATH and you will see
only /usr/X11R6/bin. (Unless you have customized it) Before that file
gets read, what is the BASH shell's search path ? I don't know, but I'm
_sure_ it doesn't yet include /opt (which doesn't even exist on a RH
system until you mkdir it.) Ok, if there was nothing wrong with
/etc/X11/xdm/Xsetup_0 , try adding the stuff below to your
/etc/profile. I put it in mine before ever wrestling with KDM issues,
and maybe it does nothing to help--but it hasn't broken anything, yet.
And KDM worked right out of the box. (with minor issues)
KDEDIR=/opt/kde/bin
export KDEDIR
I put it in /etc/profile , under the PATH line, and I added
/opt/kde/bin to the PATH line itself.
I haven't tested whether I can remove this stuff from /etc/profile and
still have a working KDM.
Also, in /root/Xrootenv.0 make sure that /opt/kde/bin is in root's
PATH
and add below that
KDEDIR=/opt/kde
Now, I vaguely remember/imagine reading that bash gets the
PATH definition from /root before /root logs in. ( So it could be that
adding that stuff to /etc/profile is totally uneccesary.)
However, all these things are set this way on my RH5.2 sytem and KDM is
working.
A side issue: if you haven't added /opt/kde/bin to root's path, did you
write /root/.xinitrc as per KDE.org's instructions? KDM doesn't depend
on this --but once you get KDM going you'll find it has the most
annoying habit of starting FVWM 95 instead of KDE! To start the desktop
of your choice
you must edit the /etc/X11/xinit/Xclients to look like this:
#!/bin/sh
~/.xinitrc
Everything in that file should be "commented out" _except_ the two
lines you see above.
This way bash will go to each users' home directory and run the
personalized .xinitrc it finds there. Which means of course that you
will have to make .xinitrc in each user's home directory. But then
users can have KDE _or_ Windowmaker or whatever --after they log in
using KDM :^)
Last Thing,
the last line of /etc/inittab (as modified by kdm_on) should look like
this:
x:5:respawn:/usr/bin/env KDEDIR=/opt/kde /opt/kde/bin/kdm -nodaemon
If it doesn't, then that'll be a source of aggravation, too. If the last
line of /etc/X11/xdm/Xsetup_0 was incomplete, (no mention of KDEDIR, or
KDEDIR= blankspace) then I'd bet that the last line of /etc/inittab will
be incomplete, too. If so, fix this line in inittab before rebooting,
or you'll get the same error message as before.
I have a RH5.2 system, too and have been figuring out KDM to put it on a
relative's RH5.2 system. However, I have been using KDM only since
1.1final. So I actually don't know if 1.1pre2 's kdm is radically
different or the exactly the same, actually. That's a disclaimer from
--hazzmat
========================================================================================
(btw -the added ##'s starting the lines 3 and 4 in
/etc/X11/xdm/Xsetup_0 will prevent the _xdm_ login screen from Redhat
from flashing up on your screen for split second before KDM comes up)
Wojtek Lukaszewicz wrote:
> Hello KDE users!
> Just installed KDE1.1pre2 on my RH5.2 system, no
> sweat...
> Following the installation instructions I typed (as root):
>
> [root@Nowy /root]# /opt/kde/bin/kdm_on
>
> ..... and that's what I got:
>
> "kdm_on" cannot run because $KDEDIR is not set:
> (Log in again as root, and try again)
>
> any ideas?
> thanks,
> Wojciech
------------------------------
From: "jmort" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Format question?
Date: 18 Feb 1999 06:25:09 GMT
I recently loaded linux redhat (not sure which version, I think the latest,I
got it at Compusa) on a old 486/66 machine with 16 megs of ram and I want
to get rid of linux now. How do I do that? What is the Hard Drive format
command? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Please reply to e-mail it is extremly hard to get on newsgroups from where I
am now.
------------------------------
From: Marco Tephlant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Source versus RPMs
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:47:14 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ed Young wrote:
> Backing out of rpm's is a *lot* easier -->
> rpm -e package-name
> With compiled source you have to delete directories and locate and delete
> executables.
>
> If you just deleted something you shouldn't have (oops) -->
> rpm -Va
> look for "missing"
> With compiled source you have to find out by failing, then ldd, then figure out
> where the darn library came from...
Good point, It's not been an issue for me though as I'm considering my linux
installation as a learning experience so filling it up with crap is not a worry.
I'm waiting for SuSE 6 so be delivered and then I will install for keeps.
--
Marco
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob Komar)
Crossposted-To: cern.linux
Subject: Re: big endian -> little endian converter
Date: 17 Feb 1999 19:22:33 GMT
Thomas Boggs ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Michael Meissner wrote:
:
: > Thomas Boggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
: >
: > > Right. So it doesn't solve the problem of reading float values from a BINARY
:file,
: > > especially when the file uses a different floating point representation.
: >
: > Geez, doing the conversion is simple, since both host and target use IEEE
: > floating point:
: >
: > double read_double (int fd) {
: > union {
: > double d;
: > char c[sizeof (double)];
: > } u, u2;
: >
: > if (read (fd, (char *) &u, sizeof (u)) == sizeof (u)) {
: > int i;
: > for (i = 0; i < sizeof (double); i++)
: > u2.c[ sizeof (double) - i ] = u.c[i];
: >
: > return u2.d;
: >
: > } else {
: > /* handle error */
: > return 0.0;
: > }
: > }
: >
:
: i386 machines use 11 bit exponents for a double (real*8) whereas VAX doubles use an 8
: bit exponent, so your method would not work. Further more, your array will be out of
: bounds when i==0 since u2.c[8] is the 9th element of an 8 element array (for an 8
:byte
: double). Also, if your function receives a 4 byte int (by value) and manipulates it
:as
: an 8 byte double, then you're in even more trouble.
:
: -thomas
:
------------------------------
From: Paul Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: linux.news,linux.redhat.misc,alt.os.linux,aus.computers.linux
Subject: Re: Best version of Netscape 4.5
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:18:12 +1100
Michel Catudal wrote:
> Paul Taylor wrote:
> > Since the 128-bit version cannot be legally exported/downloaded to
> > Australia, that's a moot point. Fortunately, you can patch the export
> > versions of Netscape using Fortify (www.fortify.net) to get 128-bit
> > encryption, including the glib2 version. Works great!
> >
>
> Interesting, downloading the 128 bit version is a pain since it's only available
> thru the web. They finally came up with a glib2 version of the 128 bits version.
The beauty of Fortify is that is contains no encryption algorithms, so
doesn't have the export restrictions of the 128-bit version (which you
probably shouldn't have in France. :) From what I've read in the doco,
the export algorithms are simply crippled to allow no more than 48(?) bit
encryption - Fortify simply removes/changes the crippling code. Note that
the same may not apply to the web server you are talking to - a 128-bit
browser can only talk 48-bit to a non 128-bit server. The Fortify website
has a handy SSL test page which tells you the encryption algorithm being
used by your browser.
> Is there a version of this Fortify for winblows? My nephew who happen to
> live in Australia might be interested.
>From www.fortify.net:
The current release of Fortify supports all of the following non-beta
Netscape browsers (English edition):-
Navigator Standard verns 2.02(+), 3.01, 3.02, 3.03, 3.04
Navigator Gold verns 3.01, 3.02, 3.03, 3.04
Navigator Lite (stand-alone) verns 4.02 to 4.08, 4.05-JDK1.1,
and 4.5
Communicator verns 4.01 to 4.08, 4.05-JDK1.1, and 4.5 (+)
that were released for the following platforms:-
DEC-OSF + Dec UNIX (Alpha systems)
SGI Irix 5.x and 6.x (Mips systems)
Sun Solaris 2.4 and 2.5.1 (Sparc systems)
Sun Solaris 2.4 (Intel x86 systems)
Sun SunOS 4.1.3_U1 (Sparc systems)
BSD, FreeBSD, BSDI (Intel x86 systems) (*)
Linux-Elf and Linux-glibc2 (Intel x86 systems)
MKLinux and LinuxPPC (PowerPC systems)
Microsoft Windows 95/98 and Windows NT (Intel x86 systems)
IBM OS/2 (Intel x86 systems) (+)
(*) BSD versions v3.01, v3.03-gold, v3.04, and v4.04 onwards only.
(+) OS/2 version v2.02 (service level 4, 7 or 8) and 4.04 only.
I've tried it on Windows 95, Linux (glibc) and Solaris versions - no
problems.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Paul Taylor Veni, vidi, tici -
[EMAIL PROTECTED] I came, I saw, I ticked.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Micha� Kuratczyk)
Subject: Re: Internet and ppp problem
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 06:31:39 GMT
Pumukito wrote:
> I'll try to set up linux just to contact with my ISP but when
>the connection receive remote and local IP I get the message:
>
> Unsupported protocol (0x31) received
Have you compiled kernel with PPP support?
--
Micha� Kuratczyk
------------------------------
From: James Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: what is linux
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:33:43 -0500
yair wrote:
>
> Hello
> I have heard about linux but I have a simple question:
> WHAT IS LINUX ??
>
> I will be happy to get info. and web addresses for info. about linux.
> Tahnks.
> Yair Cohen
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux was Linus Torvald's solution to MS-DOS and MINIX on his 386
computer back around 1991. It's been improving and developing ever
since, especially via the Internet. Linux, itself, is a UN*X-like
operating system that is distributed freely under the GNU Public License
(GPL). It's source code is distributed freely and is worked and
critiqued by a whole lot of people world wide. The rest of what you'd
get with say Debian or Slackware or Red Hat distributions are mostly
programs written by GNU, Richard Stalman that make it very useful. Of
course, other places contribute, but GNU makes Linux what people
perceive the Linux OS to be.
Linux turns hardware that might be obsolete by the latest commercial os
standards into useful equipment since it's not too hoggy in general. It
makes an excellent web server, UNIX workstation, file server (via Samba
www.samba.org), or for program development (that's what everybody
says,anyway). I probably shouldn't limit it's capabilities. Problem on
the desktop is that compared to Windoze, there are very few
applications. I use it on the desktop since much of my work is done
thru a web browser. The office type applications are getting better.
You really need to check out the stuff to really get a handle on what's
out there. (www.linuxworld.com, www.linuxhq.org, www.linuxtoday.com,
www.zdnet.com usually has article out there, www.slashdot.org, etc.)
I'm a bad programmer, but I'm trying to learn. Eventually I'll put out
at least one high quality free application for Linux, etc.
I hope I spelled Rich S's name right... You can check out www.linux.org
and get more info about it.
Of course, I may not have worded everything right, but this will get you
going in the right direction.
--
James Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
IT Engineer, Trinity Academy; Waterbury, CT; USA
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Zing Zing Awungshi Shishak)
Subject: Do inittab programs dump CORE and if so where?
Date: 17 Feb 1999 15:39:57 -0500
Hello out there,
I have a small program (spits out hellos to tty8) that's started in inittab.
When I send a sigsegv to it, it dies & respawns like it's supposed to but
doesn't dump core (find doesn't find it, the mingettys don't dump core when
I sigsegv them). It does dump core when started in a shell,.. which leads
me to believe the kernel can only dump core when the process is running in a
shell???
So, could someone explain why processes started by inittab don't dump core
or how I can go about generating a core dump this way?
Thanks!
zing
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jerry Lapham)
Subject: Re: Lexmark Printers (5700)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:31:18 -0500
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 02/15/99
at 12:12 PM, Phil Humpherys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> I picked up a Lexmark 5700 printer the other day and am really hoping
> someone can tell me that there is linux support for it. It'll do PCL,
> won't it? I didn't see much about Lexmark printers in the ghost script
> docs.
My understanding is that the Lexmark 5700 is a host based printer -- i.e.,
the rasterization is done by your CPU and just a bitmap is sent to the
printer. Sort of like a dot matrix printer in graphics mode. You can't
really call it a "winprinter" because it does have OS/2 drivers but,
AFAIK, there aren't any Linux drivers.
-Jerry
--
============================================================
Jerry Lapham, Monroe, OH
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Written Wednesday, February 17, 1999 - 11:31 PM (EST)
============================================================
MR/2 Ice tag: Reward for a job well done: more work.
------------------------------
From: Mark Skouson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Help unremovable file
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:53:01 -0600
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Matt Kressel wrote:
> Mark Skouson wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a file I can't delete.... Here is a ls -al in the
> > directory.....
> > drwxr-xr-x 7 root root 1024 Feb 17 12:36 .
> > drwxr-xr-x 9 root root 1024 Feb 17 11:22 ..
> > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 8192 Feb 17 11:07 man1
> > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 34816 Feb 15 16:40 man3
> > c--xr--r-x 1 me 25954 110, 97 Apr 2 1987 man4
> > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1024 Feb 15 11:15 man5
> > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1024 Feb 15 11:15 man6
> > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1024 Feb 15 11:15 man7
> >
> > and the file I can't delete is man4.
> > I read around enough to try lsattr and this is what I get when I run
> > that....
> > #lsattr 1.10, 24-Apr-97 for EXT2 FS 0.5b, 95/08/09
> > -------- ./man1
> > -------- ./man3
> > lsattr: Operation not supported by device While reading flags on ./man4
> > -------- ./man5
> > -------- ./man6
> > -------- ./man7
> >
> > I changed myself to "me" (the owner of the file) and got the following
> > #lsattr
> > lsattr 1.10, 24-Apr-97 for EXT2 FS 0.5b, 95/08/09
> > -------- ./man1
> > -------- ./man3
> > lsattr: Permission denied While reading flags on ./man4
> > -------- ./man5
> > -------- ./man6
> > -------- ./man7
> >
> > I tried to use chattr with out knowing which attributes to unset...
> > # chattr -ASacdisu man4
> > chattr 1.10, 24-Apr-97 for EXT2 FS 0.5b, 95/08/09
> > chattr: Operation not supported by device while reading flags on man4
> >
> > I also tried to do lsatter while in single user mode and got the same
> > message
> > #lsattr man4
> > lsattr 1.10, 24-Apr-97 for EXT2 FS 0.5b, 95/08/09
> > lsattr: Operation not supported by device While reading flags on man4
> >
> > Does anyone have any ideas?
> >
>
> Looks like the file got corrupted and the OS thinks its a device file.
> First unmount this partition and run fsck on it. It MAY find the error
> and fix it. Second, as root do a "chmod 0777 man4", then "rm -fvr
> man4". Does that work?
>
I unmounted it and ran an fsck... didn't fix it.
Here is the output for chmod...
# chmod 0777 man4
chmod: man4: Operation not permitted
Keep the ideas coming
Mark
------------------------------
From: "Rick Wheeler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Programming for ISA card
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:43:05 +1000
I have an ISA Industrial Digital I/O card, caple of driving up to 64
seperate outputs (namely, Relays). I need to be able to drive solenoids off
each relay separately & eclusively. I have programming examples for VB on
Windows 95/NT using the DLL provided by the manufacturer. I wish to control
the card via a Linux application written in C.
Can anyone provide programming examples in C, documentation or other advise
that
may be of benefit to me?
Thanks
Rick
------------------------------
From: roe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: printing a header
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:38:03 -0500
How do I print a header on the top of each page of a text file?
I need each page to have time, date, file name.
I can't seem to figure out how to do this.
Any suggestions?
------------------------------
From: "Michael Ferguson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.admin
Subject: Re: Advanced RAM usage question...
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:35:07 -0700
=====BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=====
>Surely, this must be one of the dumbest remarks I've seen in a while.
>"Free memory is a waste" -- we're better off if all our memory is
used
>up? That sounds like a great justification for the way Windows
works.
If you don't use memory then what is the point of having it? Keeping
your system memory use to only 4 megs, say, is pointless when you have
much much more. Free memory is a waste of resources, just sitting
there doing nothing. It's much better to use it for buffering and the
like to improve performance. By using it to its max you are getting
the most for what you paid for.
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Blarg)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,linux.redhat.misc,linux.redhat.rpm
Subject: Re: KDE? Gnome? ... confused
Date: 17 Feb 1999 20:58:18 GMT
Try Afterstep. Very nice and easy to configure. Same with windowmaker. Go
to www.afterstep.org and www.windowmaker.org and take a look at the
screen-shots. They're included on your RH disk. Haven't tried KDE, but gnome
seems promising, although it was a bit buggy on my box. Gnome is run in
conjunction with a wm of your choice.
blargh
On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:07:00 -0800, P.G. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>OK here is a question. I used linux sometime ago, always using fvwm. Now I
>installed RH5.2 on my new machine. I am trying to figure out which desktop
>manager to use. KDE seems nice, and I like the drag and drop capabilities
>(which I think it has?). Now when Rh was installing I saw that gnome was an
>option and I installed it.
>
>Is gnome working with kde or are two products aiming in the same direction?
>
>Bottom line: Any suggestions on which desktop environment is best? and how I
>choose which one to run?
>I am overwhelmed with options, please help me understand them.
>
>Thanks,
>Panos
>
>
------------------------------
From: Mavi Gozler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux
Subject: User "shutdown" of L2.0.34
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:31:18 GMT
I want to know how a user can shutdown or "make busy" a system running Linux
2.0.34. With Linux 1.x.y, it was easy for me to start a script that kept
repeatedly calling 'inetd' and somehow made the system busy or locked,
requiring a resetting of the system by the sys admins to restore its normal
operation, the intention of doing so.
With 2.0.x, it appears a bit more complicated, so know where the soft
underbelly of this system and employing this tactic to demand a system
restart when it is needed is in order.
Can someone please give a list of things to try to make the system shutdown
and then be restarted?
On UNIX: "This isn't rocket science, you know."
MsgID: <5dfp6t$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: "A.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: LILO woes: LI - stop
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:43:03 -0500
Lilo doesn't bood from HD. Only displays 'LI' and that's it. I can boot itno
system from floppy, though.
Tried reinstalling by running 'lilo', uninstalling by running 'lilo -U'.
Recompliled kernel, changed lilo.conf, rerun 'lilo'. - still the same thing.
Please advise where I went wrong.
Arcady
------------------------------
From: W Gerald Hicks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: Best Free Unix? (why FreeBSD?)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:43:41 GMT
John S. Dyson wrote:
>
> I understand that you wrote the code, and incorrectly and
> call your software free, and I'm still going to
> complain about the errsatz-free copyright -- only because
> it isn't free. I'll answer the question honestly when
> discussion comes up.
>
> It is those who disagree with the above who mislead, or are
> misled.
>
> --
> John | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] | it makes one look stupid
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] | and it irritates the pig.
I guess you've irritated a pig John.
(and without even giving him a singing lesson)
Jerry Hicks
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore)
Crossposted-To:
comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: Best Free Unix? (why FreeBSD?)
Date: 17 Feb 1999 21:13:45 GMT
[followups trimmed]
On 17 Feb 1999 19:04:50 GMT,
John S. Dyson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spammed to too many newsgroups:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Thomas L|fgren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > I'm not about to go into a fight arguing that this license is better
> > than that one, since we all generally strive towards the same goals.
> > When someone makes an irresponsible statement like the one above,
> > without giving any references (or even reasons), I feel an explanation
> > is due.
> >
> Okay, I guess that you haven't been aware of the fatal flaw of GPL,
> whereby developing significant derived works (where even the GPL
> code might be relatively small), GPL infects the derived works with
> further such encumberance.
If they want to make derivative works, then they need to follow the
original license.
> I feel that an apology to future developers who are tempted to use
> GPLed works as a base is in order. Perhaps adding to the GPL
> preamble:
Righto.
Simple basic rule: "He who writes the code gets to determine the
license." If you don't like other people's choices on licenses (whether
it is BSD/GPL/NPL/MicrosoftEULA, etc) then DON'T USE IT.
Whining that you don't like someone else's choices is petty and
childish. Sorry, John: the world does not revolve around you and your
values, and other people have the right to do as they see fit.
> Honest GPL preamble:
>
> I understand that you might have spent 6months or so of your
> own or billable time in producing a new techology. However, I
> don't believe that your time is worth anything in the sense of
> controlling the fruits of your invention, because you had the
> arrogance to change my GPLed works, or think that your time is
> worthy of some kind of capital investment and therefore feel
> that you must deliver source code to those who have probably
> funded a small fraction of the effort.
If the person wants to "control the fruits of his invention" then they
shouldn't be using other people's work to do so. That would be denying
the original author the right to "control the fruits of his invention",
wouldn't it.
Please try to construct coherent arguments that are not
self-contradictory.
> Excellent -- that simply means that if use is exposed in advertisement
> (in essense, the code is a primary feature), then credit has to be
> provided. However, most of the time the above isn't true. Giving credit
> to authors has a long and honored history. The other cool thing is
> that there is no allusion made by any BSD software author that code
> that is added to the codebase has to be licensed in any specific way.
> There is *no* concept of prejudging, controlling, and religion associated
> with ownership of one's own craft (either as a pieceworker or capitalist.)
Aren't you a "BSD software author"? Aren't you here alluding that code
added to the codebase should not be GPL'd? Aren't you prejudging,
controlling and advocating your religion?
Be honest and start denouncing your own posts as the nonsense they are.
> Devaluation of authors effort from being a skill owned by an author that
> they can capitalize on them reminds me of the feudal (GPL) system. I
> suggest that those who mark their code with the GPL license, should
> express clearly the control that future authors are loosing -- in these
> terms.
Future authors lose precisely nothing. No one forces them to use a
GPL'd work as a base of their own.
You are being very dishonest here.
Again, please try to construct an argument that does not contradict
itself. Explain why the rights and wishes of derivative authors are
somehow more compelling than the rights of the original author?
Why do you demand that derivative authors be able to control their code
in any way they wish, but don't allow original authors the same right?
How is your argument not "devaluing" the efforts of the originator by
removing his choice in license terms? How is forcing him to allow
others to use his work in proprietary products different from the feudal
system? Even serfs got a share of the crops, I guess: in your case, the
original author gets nothing, not even patches.
--
Brian Moore | "The Zen nature of a spammer resembles
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | a cockroach, except that the cockroach
Usenet Vandal | is higher up on the evolutionary chain."
Netscum, Bane of Elves. Peter Olson, Delphi Postmaster
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