Linux-Misc Digest #143, Volume #19 Mon, 22 Feb 99 19:13:13 EST
Contents:
GNU grep-2.3 (Alain Magloire)
Linux programming book (Mark Robinson)
Re: Which HP DeskJet to buy/not to buy? - quick advice needed, please! (Geoff Allsup)
Re: Star Office - Registration????? (Albert Ulmer)
Re: Best Free Unix? (why FreeBSD?) (Linus Torvalds)
Re: DVD (Scott Larson)
Re: floating point accuracy on Linux? (William Burrow)
Re: Best Free Unix? (why FreeBSD?) (John S. Dyson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Alain Magloire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.announce,gnu.utils.bug,alt.sources.d
Subject: GNU grep-2.3
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1999 20:39:20 -0500 (EST)
A new release of GNU grep is available at
ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/grep-2.3tar.gz
The programs are: grep, egrep, fgrep.
See ChangeLog and THANKS for the full credits.
Version 2.3:
- When searching a binary file FOO, grep now just reports
`Binary file FOO matches' instead of outputting binary data.
This is typically more useful than the old behavior,
and it is also more consistent with other utilities like `diff'.
A file is considered to be binary if it contains a NUL (i.e. zero) byte.
The new -a or --text option causes `grep' to assume that all
input is text. (This option has the same meaning as with `diff'.)
Use it if you want binary data in your output.
- `grep' now searches directories just like ordinary files; it no longer
silently skips directories. This is the traditional behavior of
Unix text utilities (in particular, of traditional `grep').
Hence `grep PATTERN DIRECTORY' should report
`grep: DIRECTORY: Is a directory' on hosts where the operating system
does not permit programs to read directories directly, and
`grep: DIRECTORY: Binary file matches' (or nothing) otherwise.
The new -d ACTION or --directories=ACTION option affects directory handling.
`-d skip' causes `grep' to silently skip directories, as in grep 2.2;
`-d read' (the default) causes `grep' to read directories if possible,
as in earlier versions of grep.
- The MS-DOS and Microsoft Windows ports now behave identically to the
GNU and Unix ports with respect to binary files and directories.
- Cygnus and DJGPP support.
Bug reports go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
alain
[ Most GNU software is compressed using the GNU `gzip' compression program.
Source code is available on most sites distributing GNU software.
Executables for various systems and information about using gzip can be
found at the URL http://www.gzip.org.
For information on how to order GNU software on CD-ROM and
printed GNU manuals, see http://www.gnu.org/order/order.html
or e-mail a request to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
By ordering your GNU software from the FSF, you help us continue to
develop more free software. Media revenues are our primary source of
support. Donations to FSF are deductible on US tax returns.
The above software will soon be at these ftp sites as well.
Please try them before ftp.gnu.org as ftp.gnu.org is very busy!
A possibly more up-to-date list is at the URL
http://www.gnu.org/order/ftp.html
thanx [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Here are the mirrored ftp sites for the GNU Project, listed by country:
United States:
California - labrea.stanford.edu/pub/gnu, gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/GNU
Hawaii - ftp.hawaii.edu/mirrors/gnu
Illinois - uiarchive.cso.uiuc.edu/pub/gnu (Internet address 128.174.5.14)
Kentucky - ftp.ms.uky.edu/pub/gnu
Maryland - ftp.digex.net/pub/gnu (Internet address 164.109.10.23)
Michigan - gnu.egr.msu.edu/pub/gnu
Missouri - wuarchive.wustl.edu/systems/gnu
New Mexico - ftp.cs.unm.edu/pub/mirrors/gnu
New York - ftp.cs.columbia.edu/archives/gnu/prep
Ohio - ftp.cis.ohio-state.edu/mirror/gnu
Tennessee - ftp.skyfire.net/pub/gnu
Virginia - ftp.uu.net/archive/systems/gnu
Washington - ftp.nodomainname.net/pub/mirrors/gnu
Africa:
South Africa - ftp.sun.ac.za/gnu
The Americas:
Brazil - ftp.unicamp.br/pub/gnu
Canada - ftp.cs.ubc.ca/mirror2/gnu
Chile - ftp.inf.utfsm.cl/pub/gnu (Internet address 146.83.198.3)
Costa Rica - sunsite.ulatina.ac.cr/GNU
Mexico - ftp.uaem.mx/pub/gnu
Asia and Australia:
Australia - archie.au/gnu (archie.oz or archie.oz.au for ACSnet)
Australia - ftp.progsoc.uts.edu.au/pub/gnu
Australia - mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/gnu
Japan - tron.um.u-tokyo.ac.jp/pub/GNU/prep
Japan - ftp.cs.titech.ac.jp/pub/gnu
Korea - cair-archive.kaist.ac.kr/pub/gnu (Internet address 143.248.186.3)
Saudi Arabia - ftp.isu.net.sa/pub/mirrors/prep.ai.mit.edu/
Thailand - ftp.nectec.or.th/pub/mirrors/gnu (Internet address - 192.150.251.32)
Europe:
Austria - ftp.univie.ac.at/packages/gnu
Austria - gd.tuwien.ac.at/gnu/gnusrc
Austria - http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/gnu/gnusrc/
Czech Republic - ftp.fi.muni.cz/pub/gnu/
Denmark - ftp.denet.dk/mirror/ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu
Denmark - ftp.dkuug.dk/pub/gnu/
Finland - ftp.funet.fi/pub/gnu
France - ftp.univ-lyon1.fr/pub/gnu
France - ftp.irisa.fr/pub/gnu
Germany - ftp.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/pub/comp/os/unix/gnu/
Germany - ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/pub/gnu
Germany - ftp.de.uu.net/pub/gnu
Greece - ftp.forthnet.gr/pub/gnu
Greece - ftp.ntua.gr/pub/gnu
Greece - ftp.aua.gr/pub/mirrors/GNU (Internet address 143.233.187.61)
Hungary - ftp.kfki.hu/pub/gnu
Ireland - ftp.ieunet.ie/pub/gnu (Internet address 192.111.39.1)
Netherlands - ftp.eu.net/gnu (Internet address 192.16.202.1)
Netherlands - ftp.nluug.nl/pub/gnu
Netherlands - ftp.win.tue.nl/pub/gnu (Internet address 131.155.70.19)
Norway - ftp.ntnu.no/pub/gnu (Internet address 129.241.11.142)
Poland - ftp.task.gda.pl/pub/gnu
Portugal - ftp.ci.uminho.pt/pub/mirrors/gnu
Portugal - http://ciumix.ci.uminho.pt/mirrors/gnu/
Slovenia - ftp.arnes.si/pub/software/gnu
Spain - ftp.etsimo.uniovi.es/pub/gnu
Sweden - ftp.isy.liu.se/pub/gnu
Sweden - ftp.stacken.kth.se
Sweden - ftp.luth.se/pub/unix/gnu
Sweden - ftp.sunet.se/pub/gnu (Internet address 130.238.127.3)
Also mirrors the Mailing List Archives.
Switzerland - ftp.eunet.ch/mirrors4/gnu
Switzerland - sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/gnu (Internet address 193.5.24.1)
United Kingdom - ftp.mcc.ac.uk/pub/gnu (Internet address 130.88.203.12)
United Kingdom - unix.hensa.ac.uk/mirrors/gnu
United Kingdom - ftp.warwick.ac.uk (Internet address 137.205.192.14)
United Kingdom - SunSITE.doc.ic.ac.uk/gnu (Internet address 193.63.255.4)
]
------------------------------
From: Mark Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux programming book
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:51:18 GMT
Hi,
I was thinking of ordering Linux Programming from Cheapbytes. Is the
book any good? Are there better books?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Geoff Allsup)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Which HP DeskJet to buy/not to buy? - quick advice needed, please!
Date: 22 Feb 1999 22:43:49 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:26:42 +0000, Jason Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, A.G. wrote:
>
>> I really need an advice which of the HP's DeskJets are known to work well or
>> poorly under Linux.
>
>The Deskjet 6xx and 8xx pretty much all work with Ghostscript.
>
except, I believe, model 820's (vintage a couple of years ago, the first
of the 'PPA' printers for Windoze only)
geoff
******************************************************************
Geoff Allsup Upper Ocean Processes Group
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Woods Hole, MA, USA
******************************************************************
------------------------------
From: Albert Ulmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Star Office - Registration?????
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:04:50 GMT
> After I had installed Star Office 5.0 when I run it the first screen=20
was to
> register the software - after filling in the info the program went to =
the
> registration site, fetched and installed the registration codes.
Exactly! I don=B4t see what could possibly go wrong with such a simple=20
procedure. IMHO StarDivision made it fool-proof.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Linus Torvalds)
Crossposted-To:
comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: Best Free Unix? (why FreeBSD?)
Date: 21 Feb 1999 19:17:40 GMT
In article <7aph2j$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
John S. Dyson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>The cool thing about the BSD license is that developers can add to
>the free software base and effectively make capital investments
>in it. GPL licensing excludes that.
Good, John.
That's what it's _designed_ to do. So shut up, you're just arguing that
it's working exactly the way it's _supposed_ to work.
Some of us consider it important that you don't lose information due to
fragmentation and proprietary code, like UNIX historically did, and the
BSD's seem to be doing now.
And we all _know_ you want to make money using other peoples code, and
that's part of why I'm really happy you aren't using GPL'd code. I just
wish you'd also shut up about the fact that you're so unhappy about not
being able to sell other peoples code without giving them something
back.
The GPL is based on the idea of mutual benefit - "symbiosis" to you
biology people. The idea behind symbiosis is that different entities
bring different qualities to the whole, and everybody benefits.
What you advocate is called parasitism in biology. It works too, but
it's not exactly pretty. And I don't see why you're so damn proud of
it.
Linus
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott Larson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: DVD
Date: 22 Feb 1999 22:35:22 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"matthew.r.pavlovich.1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> The support for reading DVD movies off of DVD drives is still in heavy
> development.
Is this support related to the patches at
http://www.rpi.edu/~veliaa/linux-dvd/
?
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----------
Scott Larson ADP Dealer Services
Systems 2525 S.W. 1st
Programmer Portland, OR 97201
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William Burrow)
Subject: Re: floating point accuracy on Linux?
Date: 21 Feb 1999 16:58:05 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 19 Feb 1999 22:56:13 GMT,
Troy Loveday <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Georg Schwarz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>sure, I expect so, but still I think 0.2*5-1 should be output as 0.0 and
>>not -5.551115e-17.
...
>[I think the reason many people are surprised is that they are
> accustomed to using calculators, many of which store the mantissa in
> base 10.]
As you must know, the same problem arises for calculutors for other numbers.
eg.
1 / 3 * 3 - 1 is rarely 0 on a calculator, though I have one where that is
the case (it stores the last digit as an even digit only, maybe other
calculators have similar tricks nowadays).
--
William Burrow -- New Brunswick, Canada o
Copyright 1999 William Burrow ~ /\
~ ()>()
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John S. Dyson)
Crossposted-To:
comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: Best Free Unix? (why FreeBSD?)
Date: 21 Feb 1999 17:32:55 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jason Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 20 Feb 1999, John S. Dyson wrote:
>
>> So, you have provided CDROMs that cost << $2 apiece to produce
>> in volume? I also don't have high-bandwidth Internet access at home
>> (where I do most of my work from.) In fact, I had uucp while doing
>> alot of my FreeBSD work. That was quite expensive to me. In the last
>> few years, I have had cheaper internet access, but so what? I don't
>> have to be online to work, and I dealt with the cost of downloads...
>
> Once again you have employed a selective reading technique to read only
> want you wanted to.
>
> Do you know what the costs of producing a Linux CD distribution in the UK
> are?
>
Then get it done in the US..
>
> Do you know how much a leased line Internet connection costs in the
> UK or the value of my time in doing this, or the cost of CD production is
> when you don't have the benefits of US economies of scale?
>
You didn't say that you have a leased line. So, that increases your
cost, and you are having problems making money -- so what? Many of
my co-workers in the Bay area are from the UK... Get a visa...
>
> No, obviously you don't or you would not be spouting such ignorant shit.
>
I probably know as much about the state of U**X in the UK as you do here.
>
>> > You are the one who started throwing the term parasite at people like me.
>> >
>> Nope, in the past, the GPLers had started it,
>
> Ah this explains a lot now. How old are you? 12 years?
>
Nope, it is RMS'ite language. Just thought that you would understand.
BTW, you are getting personal, and that shows extreme
unprofessionalism.
>
> This is the only discussion I have ever entered into with you. You called
> me a parasite. Re-read the messages and see.
>
I didn't call *you* a parasite, but people who just use free software,
don't contribute substantially to it, and use it for fuel for their
business just might be. Are you? Do you *feel* like a parasite now?
If you want to contribute, that should be a cost of your business, and
if you aren't feeding contributions back to a free codebase, then maybe
you should be. It doesn't make any difference if you are making money
or not yet -- it is part of the investment. If you are using GPLed code
as fuel, then you are getting an investment advantage based on your
skills that the developers cannot with GPLed code. There are alot of
GPL developers spending time and not making money on it.
>> in the sense of people
>> who develop code and might license their derived works differently than
>> GPL. I sure wish you have seen $$$ qotes from some of the other support
>> companies, it might make you ill (or elated) depending... Maybe they
>> (the customers) are smarter in UK, than in the Bay area, and that would
>> be a tribute to the UK'ers.
>
> There is NOTHING stopping someone from choosing whatever license they like
> to their own original work so long as it does not contain someone else's
> work, to which the original author hold exclusive rights regarding the
> choice of license.
>
There is NOTHING stopping someone from supporting GPLed code, and gaining
advantage with their skills that a developer cannot with their skills
given GPL. You might have the skill of merchandising and support and
able to invest capital into that, but GPL takes such freedoms away
from programmers whose skill is to invest in software and ideas.
>
> The cost of support is dependant upon the cost to the provider of
> providing that support and the charges that the market will bear - this is
> simple business - at least in a market economy.
>
I agree, but programming is costly, and there is a willing to pay. GPL
doesn't support the notion as software as capital. The merchandisers
are taking advantage of the ignorance of programmers who don't know that
they are giving it away for free. Given a free license, the programmers
can make that choice on a contribution by contribution basis. GPL is
just not free. GPL has been bolstered by the lie and marketing foo
that it is free. Maybe they are changing their tune now, but only after
damage is done.
>> So, you (by "supporting" software) are leveraging the efforts of those
>> who have given their work away for free.
>
> No, I am leveraging my own experience which I have spent over 10 years
> building up.
>
You are using GPLed works for fuel, right? Hmm... You still don't
get it, do you? You didn't pay for them did you? I wonder how many
person years of effort you are taking advantage of? 10yrs is NOTHING,
and I suspect that you haven't been in full time business for 10yrs or
you wouldn't be eating now (or your Mommy and Daddy are still feeding
you?)
>
>> The kind of "free" determines
>> how the developer (him|her)self can profit. The GPL excludes amortizing
>> cost of development from the money pipeline (unless there is some
>> gross overcharging going on somewhere, like for support fees.) GPLed
>> code is structured for people like you to make money. There has been
>> lots of good money made on free and GPLed works.
>
> Not just the GPL but EVERY `free' license is structured such that the
> original developer does not make financial profit directly from their code
> but rather from opportunities that may arise after the release of that
> code.
>
Opportunties to enhance. As soon as other's code taints a GPLed codebase,
the original developer is even screwed. That is the reason why the
FSF is savvy enough to get assignments. That isn't reasonable for
everyone.
>
> There is nothing to exclude people taking out support contracts with those
> most directly able to support a given product (ie the authors).
>
Support... Overcharging... If you charge for support, then you should
charge for support. If one is paying for significant amounts of
development with support fees, then it isn't support. That is
misrepresentation.
>
>> You aren't Red Hat, then, are you? So, you are in a money loosing
>> venture, please look at WC CDROM also, they seem to be making lots
>> of money selling all kinds of copies of software... Geesh, the GPL
>> works are set-up for your exploitation, and you cannot make money?
>
> Again your ignorance betrays you. I am not in the US. I do not benefit
> from the economies of scale and the higher take up of personal computing
> that a US based company might.
>
You have no idea of my "ignorance." Note that Red Hat or WC can pretty
much swoop in and sell CDROMs and support. They might have to deal with
some international cr*p, but maybe it would be good for you to deal
with them? It seems with a 50K loss (that you implied) that you are
having problems getting started. If you have a customer base at all,
it might be useful to you, think creatively. A good business person
can always find other things to do eventually.
Of course, your direct claims about ignorance in this case show a lack
of an ability to think on your part.
>
> I started offering Linux for sale not as a business venture but rather as
> a public service for UK Linux users for whom there was NO easy way to
> purchase Linux in the UK at the time.
>
Offering GPLed code *just might* not be a public service in the
long run. It seems that you have found an opportunity.
>
>> They provide support (both RH and WC.) Last I heard, WC's support
>> was still fairly simple, but enough to get things rolling (I could
>> be wrong on that though, my info is out-of-date.) Cygnus has been
>> making money almost purely on "support" (actually access), haven't
>> they?
>
> So what? This is a good thing.
>
Read carefully what I said above: note the quotes around "support."
>> You are making a sort-of investment in your reputation and marketing
>> skills
>
> No, I have been offering a service to the UK Linux community that has
> grown out of necessity to meet vastly increased demand.
>
GPL again. :-(.
>
> What absolute bull shit. You are clearly ignorant of a great many things
> including the realities of Open Software processes.
>
I have been involved in real free software for years now. You are showing
provincialism.
>
> Programmers have the absolute right to release their works under whatever
> license they choose. If they choose to do so under the GPL or a similar
> license that is their decision and you should keep your nose out of it.
>
If they choose to mess up, then it is their right. You are taking
advantage of that messup.
>
>> I don't want to deny their right, however informing people as to the
>> limitations of license(s) is a service.
>
> Only if done accurately and you are not giving accurate facts.
>
You are wrong. You still don't admit to taking advantage of free
labor to fuel your business and show an obvious bias to bolster your
position.
>
> You are obviously a troll so I will not engage in further discussion on
> this matter with you.
>
Perhaps because you need to win with GPL, so you can continue to
take advantage of ignorance?
--
John | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | it makes one look stupid
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | and it irritates the pig.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
