Linux-Misc Digest #65, Volume #20 Wed, 5 May 99 02:13:11 EDT
Contents:
Re: GNU reeks of Communism (Michael Powe)
Re: run windows 95 apps on a linux client from a sco server with merge? ("Mark A.
Davis")
Re: How to get KDE to be default login manager? ("Steve D. Perkins")
Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux (Kelvin Tsang)
Re: GNU reeks of Communism (Michael Powe)
Re: X-SVGA-Server mit CL-GD 5426! (John Thompson)
Re: Red Hat Linux - can't login. Pls HELP!! (Mohd H Misnan)
Re: MPEG TV ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: How to switch VTs wben X is running? (Mars)
Re: CD-R as backup device (jik-)
lilo overwritten by windows (Donald)
Re: /etc/profile, xdm and a .xsession file (David Stanaway)
Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really) ("Ciaran Dunn")
2 NIC in RH, 2 subnet required? ("Jeffrey Yu")
Re: CD-R as backup device ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: lilo overwritten by windows (Jeffery Cann)
Is Unix a single user operating system? (was: Wanted: Database/Contact mgr with
backend on Linux/FreeBSD, web frontend) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux's Last Chance (Mike)
Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows (Leslie Mikesell)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: GNU reeks of Communism
From: Michael Powe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 04 May 1999 21:13:54 -0700
=====BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=====
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Jim> On Tue, 4 May 1999 14:50:02 +0200, Matthias Warkus, in the
Jim> persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, brought forth the
Jim> following words...:
>> It was the 4 May 1999 03:03:18 GMT... ..and Jim Richardson
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 May 1999 15:47:34 +0200, Matthias Warkus, in the
>>> persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, brought forth the following
>>> words...:
>>> >It was the 03 May 1999 01:01:39 -0700... >..and Michael Powe
>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >[may Raymond and Perens
>>> duke it out some day?] >> The false notion that Raymond had
>>> threatened Perens with violence was >> first propagated by
>>> Perens in response to a statement from Raymond >> that Perens
>>> interpreted to mean that Raymond might shoot him. Perens >>
>>> subsequently retracted his interpretation of Raymond's
>>> statements and >> admitted he had misunderstood them. You
>>> guys really should pay more >> attention to what's going on
>>> ... even if it means less time spent >> gossipping about what
>>> you don't know. > >I fully expect ESR to go completely nuts
>>> someday. Maybe it's not >Perens whom he'll shoot. We'll see.
>>> > >mawa
>>> Why do you expect ESR to go completely nuts some day? do you
>>> have a rational reason for this expectation?
>> I had a long e-mail conversation with him. He's not only
>> anarcho-capitalist, but a hard-core libertarian, too. I fully
>> expect every libertarian to go nuts some day.
Jim> Kind of an odd position to take given the libertarian
Jim> rejection of initiation of force...
That's nonsense. Libertarianism is founded on the principle of `might
makes right.' It's Social Darwinism in a pin-striped suit.
mp
- --
powered by GNU/linux since Sept 1997
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.trollope.org
Michael Powe Portland, Oregon USA
"Would John the Baptist have lost his head if his name was Steve?"
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------------------------------
From: "Mark A. Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.sco.misc
Subject: Re: run windows 95 apps on a linux client from a sco server with merge?
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 19:37:42 -0400
Chriseli de Rama wrote:
>
> quickie question:
> is it possible to run windows 95 applications sitting on a sco openserver
> 5.0.5 server with sco merge
Of course
> on a linux client?
I think you mean a Linux Xserver, not client.
If so, the answer is "yes"
> if so, how is it done?
Just like any Xterminal. Simply remotely execute the command on the SCO
box, making sure to export your DISPLAY variable.
> what other softwares do i need?
Nothing
> do you know of any
> resources on which i could get more information on this?
Here is the command I use to launch Merge (Win mode) remotely (on lake)
as user "win95" (I have such a generic login for several reasons):
exec rcmd lake -l win95 'DISPLAY='$DISPLAY'; export DISPLAY; win +x '$*
Read up on rcmd
--
/--------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Mark A. Davis, |Lake Taylor| Voice: (757)-461-5001x431 8-4:30ET |
| Director of | Hospital | [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***to reply |
|Information Systems|Norfolk, VA| from USENET remove anti-spam "yy" |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------/
------------------------------
From: "Steve D. Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.kde
Subject: Re: How to get KDE to be default login manager?
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 19:50:49 -0400
> if you don't have kde under /opt then use locate or find to search for kde
> on you system. God only knows why someone would suggest a format/re-install
Sigh... because KDE's default installation directory is "/opt/kde", and
unless he REALLY went out his way to intentionally make it something else (which
I doubt), then something went really wrong.
The guy is already apparently in the middle of multiple installation
attempts (in the beginning it always seems to take a few installs to get things
just right)... so instead of charging down the wrong road, it makes a bit more
sense to start over again while you're already near the starting line.
Steve
------------------------------
From: Kelvin Tsang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 23:45:05 +0800
Ha....ha...I totally agreed with you.
And do not forget the beautiful blue screen of NT.
Kelvin
Luther barnum wrote:
> I think just about every Executive who plays golf and only uses his computer to
> check stocks has been duped by Mr. Bill. They all think that an easier interface
> means better quality. I work as an Unix admin with NT servers also under my
> control. I see first hand that NT cannot possibly compete with any flavor of Unix
> or Linux. If you don't believe it, try to control 5 pc's at a time with
> PC-any(one-at-a-time)where. I can do that with a lowly 386 running on Linux.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: GNU reeks of Communism
From: Michael Powe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 04 May 1999 21:19:40 -0700
=====BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=====
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew Carol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Andrew> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Andrew> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Formal copyright protection doesn't really buy that
>> much. People still see an making extra copy of appfoo as a near
>> zero cost process and intuitively devalue that software and
>> pirate away.
Andrew> I don't see us going to dongles so much as Intel
Andrew> developing a hardware "uber dongle" which will live on the
Andrew> PC board or even in the CPU. It would hold licence
Andrew> information etc.
Don't buy Intel.
mp
- --
powered by GNU/linux since Sept 1997
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.trollope.org
Michael Powe Portland, Oregon USA
"Would John the Baptist have lost his head if his name was Steve?"
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------------------------------
From: John Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: X-SVGA-Server mit CL-GD 5426!
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:30:51 -0600
**Nick Brown wrote:
>
> Are you sure you have 1 MB of video memory ? That's an old Cirrus chip,
> and there may well only be 512 KB of video memory on the board.
>
> Daniel Wagner wrote:
> > If i want to use 800x600 pixels with 16bpp the X-Server doesn't startup and
> > displays an errormessage:
> > ...no screens found...
I have an old Cirrus 5426 VLB card here with 1MB VRAM. I'm
not using it anymore, but they were available in that
configuration.
--
-John ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mohd H Misnan)
Crossposted-To: alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions,alt.os.linux,jaring.os.linux
Subject: Re: Red Hat Linux - can't login. Pls HELP!!
Date: 4 May 1999 10:22:34 GMT
On Mon, 03 May 1999 21:14:02 -0500, Brock wrote:
>The first thing is to check your use of capitol letters. In linux root
>and Root and ROOT would be three DIFFERENT names. Same goes for
>passwords.
>
>Good Luck,
>
>Wally
>
>Shellfer wrote:
>
>> Hi. I've just started reading about Linux and I've got Red Hat
>> 5.2 installed. After installing, I rebooted and it asked me for a
>> login name. From what I understand, the login is root. I typed that
>> in, then my password which i keyed in during installation, but it said
>> Bad Login or something like that. What is wrong?? I can't get into
If anything failed, and hopefully you've lilo installed. At the lilo prompt,
issue a "vmlinuz single" (w/o quotes) and edit the /etc/password, clear the
2nd column (which has junk word) and reboot.
--
|Mohd Hamid Misnan|[EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] |i|
|MacOS 8.5.1 + |http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/3319/ |M|
|AMD K6-2/300 + |We want to take over the world, but we don't have |a|
|Linux 2.2.7 i586 |to do it tomorrow. It's OK by next week - Linus T.|c|
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: MPEG TV
Date: 4 May 1999 11:38:46 -0400
Lian PL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Has anyone tried out Mpeg Tv on Linux? I was told that this program can
: play VCD? How good and stable compared to Win 95 Xing?.enail to:
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I never tried using it with VCDs, but it is a decent Mpeg player and
is worth the price they are asking.
There is a bug that can cause a problem. If you accidentally have the
program view a non-mpeg file, the program can spawn a runaway process
named "mtvp" that silently comsumes all of your CPU until you do a
kill -9.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Mars <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How to switch VTs wben X is running?
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 12:08:20 +0800
It fails to switch back to X.
**Nick Brown wrote:
>
> The official way to change VTs is Ctrl-Alt-Fx. I didn't know Alt-Fx
> worked (just tried it, it does !) but Ctrl-Alt-Fx works with X active as
> well.
>
> Pat Masterson wrote:
> > Whats the magic keystroke combination to switch to a different
> > virtual terminal when X is up? The alt-Fx combo works in the text
> > mode consoles, but not when I have X running.
>
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Nick Brown, Strasbourg, France (Nick(dot)Brown(at)coe(dot)int)
>
> Protect yourself against Word 95/97 viruses, free - check out
> http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/Vineyard/1446/atlas-t.html
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 17:08:48 -0700
From: jik- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: CD-R as backup device
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Does anyone know how to use a CD-R drive as a backup device
> under linux? I want to do multiple backups on a single CD.
> I've tried to follow the multi-session instructions for
> cdrecord, without success.
Use an ext2 filesystem image. You will need 650M of free space for the
image is all, then you can put whatever you want to back up inside of
it.
>
> I have TEAC R55S, running on an alpha.
>
> I would love to have a script which did automated backups.
>
> David Jaffe
> Dept. of Math. and Stat.
> Univ. of Nebraska - Lincoln
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: Donald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: lilo overwritten by windows
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 21:08:28 -0300
i have a dual boot system. something went wrong with windows today, so i
had to reinstall. i completely forgot that windows overwrites the mbr
and i didn't make a boot disk for linux. any way of restoring lilo?
any help is appreciated.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Stanaway)
Crossposted-To: aus.computers.linux,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: /etc/profile, xdm and a .xsession file
Date: 5 May 1999 04:42:10 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Brent A wrote:
>I'm using debian slink 2.1 and am having trouble with getting linux to read
>in the settings from /etc/profile when someone logs in. It only seems to not
>work if the user logs in using xdm, and a .xsession file. Seems to work fine
>when the user has no .xsession file, or logs in through the one of the
>consoles. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this?
You could try sourcing /etc/profile in .xsession, or using calling xterm :
xterm -ls
It would be worthwhile reading the xinit scripts too to see where it
sources the user xsession, and if you want to ensure that everyone gets it
then source in /etc/profile before then?
reading list.
man source
man xinit
man login
David Stanaway.
------------------------------
From: "Ciaran Dunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: talk.politics.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.activism
Subject: Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really)
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:31:39 +1000
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:7gkt23$g3s$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
> - there is no mechanism for objective, non-email-feedback-based user
analysis.
> it just isn't done. in practice, a programmer dork decides what the
interface
> should be and then he does it.
And yet with all the obvious thoughtful design and non-email based user
analysis I still have to put up with such stupidities as the "flying menus"
of Win98 ?
Cheers,
Ciaran
------------------------------
From: "Jeffrey Yu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: 2 NIC in RH, 2 subnet required?
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:11:30 -0400
Hi, I am trying to configure two NIC in my Linux box (RH5.2).
I assigned two ip for both, ie, 191.191.191.1, 191.191.191.2.
Now the problem is I can only ping the 2nd NIC (eth1). It
seems this is a network routing issue. What should I do to
configure the routing table right? Are these two NC required
to be from two different subnet, ie, 191.2.0.0 and 191.5.0.0?
Please help!!
--Jeffrey
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: CD-R as backup device
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 04:49:40 GMT
In article <7gnpnt$ba$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Does anyone know how to use a CD-R drive as a backup device
>under linux? I want to do multiple backups on a single CD.
>I've tried to follow the multi-session instructions for
>cdrecord, without success.
>
>I have TEAC R55S, running on an alpha.
>
>I would love to have a script which did automated backups.
>
>David Jaffe
>Dept. of Math. and Stat.
>Univ. of Nebraska - Lincoln
>e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
I've got one of those too and I do multi-session backups. First
you put the stuff you want to back up in a directory. I've developed
the convention of using a directory called first_dir. Under it I'll
create a subdirectory for the date (i.e. 3may99) and in that directory
I'll put all the stuff I want to backup. Then I'll create an image
with mkisofs:
mkisofs -R -o iso.raw first_dir /* This is for the 1st write to a CD */
/* Below is for later writes, the 'multi' in 'multi-session' */
mkisofs -o iso.raw -R -C `cdrecord -msinfo dev=6,0` -M /dev/scd0 first_dir
Then I 'burn' it to the CD with (note that 6 is the SCSI device address
on my system, you would substitute whatever you use):
cdrecord -v speed=4 dev=6,0 -multi iso.raw
You can throw in a '-eject' if you want the CD ejected after it's
done.
--
Praeterea censeo Micromolle non esse utendum.
("Moreover, I maintain that Microsoft should not be used." With apologies
to Cato the Elder)
---- Remove "UhUh" and "Spam" to get my real email address -----
------------------------------
From: Jeffery Cann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: lilo overwritten by windows
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 00:20:05 GMT
Donald wrote:
>
> i have a dual boot system. something went wrong with windows today, so i
> had to reinstall. i completely forgot that windows overwrites the mbr
> and i didn't make a boot disk for linux. any way of restoring lilo?
> any help is appreciated.
If you are running Slackware, you can make a boot disk. I am sure other
distros have a bootable diskette option. With Slackware, you can make
your bootable diskette while running windows using the 'rawrite'
application.
After you have booted your system on it and run '/sbin/lilo' (as root)
to restore your lilo configuration.
Jeff
--
+--------------------------------+
| http://members.home.net/jccann |
+--------------------------------+
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Is Unix a single user operating system? (was: Wanted: Database/Contact mgr
with backend on Linux/FreeBSD, web frontend)
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 00:17:11 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Thomas Keto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I really hate to see Unix and Unix software marketed like single user
> operating systems.
Why not? That's what they are, at least from the demographics figures. The
number of Unix workstations _far_ outnumbers the number of servers. The same
was not true ten or probably even five years ago, but it's true today.
Personally, I'm glad. I care more about lower prices for personal software
rather than cheaper pricing models for my company.
I know, I know, you meant you hated the fact that Unix is being marketed as if
it were *only* a single user operating system. Marketing is about selling
stuff, not about educating the masses. That's what the mailing lists, usenet,
the websites, newsletters, documentation, and publications are for. I don't
care *how* companies market Unix and its warez, so long as it gets more people
pumping money into the market.
-Bill Clark
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike)
Crossposted-To: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Linux's Last Chance
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 05:12:53 GMT
Well being rather new to Linux as well, I'm not sure where to help.
Off the top of my head, have you tried any of the "mini" Linux's that
fit on a floppy? Perhaps you could boot that, mount your partitions in
ram and try and poke around and see what's up? Or can you not boot
from any kind of floppy?
Second thought, can you make room for a second install of linux, bare
minimum, that you could boot to and make fixes?
Third thought, as Mighty Bill has taught us many a time, just format
the sucker and start over!
Don't give up though. Not to make light of your troubles but your
missives are rather entertaining. Perhaps a series may be in order.
I'm thinking something like,
Another Linux?
All My Penguins?
General Lilo? (nah, sounds too WWII ish, maybe a mini-series though)
Leave it to Wilbur?
(dang where's my agent's phone number? )
Good Luck
mike
On Mon, 3 May 1999 16:26:39 +0100, "Dave Tansley"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Well, despite being won over by the sheer spangliness of Gnome, I have to
>say that I'm about ready to throw in the towel with Linux....It's just too
>much hassle, life is too short. The list of problems I've had is beginning
>to read like a biblical text, and the number of problems actually solved is
>depressingly sparse.
>
>Unless!! Anyone can help....So please, read through this list of dilemmas,
>malfunctions and irritations and see if you can save a soul from Big Bill's
>Evil Empire.
>
>The story so far: Plucky but likeable scoundrel, Dave has recently been
>experimenting with Redhat Linux. This isnt his first time installing a Unix
>variant, and he considers himself to be competent and reasonably savvy.
>Hell, m68k on his trusty beige pal, the Amiga 1200 was no walk in the park.
>So, despite a few teething troubles with 5.1, he manages to get it ticking
>over, albeit without the use of his modem and soundcard, but hell, what do
>you want? Then along comes Redhat 6.0, which Dave recognizes as a worthy
>upgrade. One 9 hour iso image download, and a trip to Mr CDR's Portable
>Laser Clinic, Dave emerges with a lovely green RH6.0 install CD. Pop's it
>into his computer and duly, and succesully upgrades his linux
>installation.....and everyone lived happily ever after.....
>
>Woah! Okay, so the last bit never happened....here's whats up:
>
>1) LILO just doesnt work. Not even the usual "gets to LI then hangs"
>problem. Nope, this gives me the full "LILO" prompt, followed by a very
>mocking "Loading Linux......" message. But after that, nothing, nada, zippo,
>zilch. Deader than a night out in Leeds. No errors messages, no cryptic
>numbers or witty panic statement. Just dead. The fact that it gets past
>"Loading Linux....." seems to suggest to me that LILO has worked, but the
>Kernel is at fault? Anyone help here? My motherboard is a crappy PC Chips
>M572.
>
>2) Okay, so this wouldnt be too much of a problem. In fact, it was the same
>with 5.1, and I got around it with using Loadlin. And I figured that I'd use
>this again. So I copied the vmlinuz kernel from the distribution CD and
>proceeded to load Linux with Loadlin. Problems on bootup included: lack of
>msdos filesystem in the kernel. Sooooo, I couldnt mount my windows
>partitions to copy off the real kernel to my loadlin directory. Oh, did I
>mention that trying to use floppies in with my computer causes a lock up?
>But only in Linux.....
>
>3) Right, no problem again I thought, just boot with the old kernel and
>mount the partitions. Done and done, but when I rebooted and tried to run
>loadlin with the new kernel (vmlinuz-2.2.5 from the /boot directory), it
>succesfully loads and uncompresses the kernel, then spews out a page of
>numbers before kealing over to die. Bugger. I dont remember the exact error
>message, at this stage I was banging my head against my desk (the doctors
>say with plastic surgery, I may one day regain use of my nose!)
>
>[To all those who have stuck with me this far, please accept my heartfelt
>thanks (and suprise). Hey, why not go have a cup of coffee, take ten minutes
>off....It only gets more complicated from here on in]
>
>4) Right, I'm nothing if not a glutton for punishment, so I decide that the
>kernel must have some thing that disagrees with my system. Mmmmm, smells
>like time for a kernel recompile folks. Reboot, reload with
>non-ms-dos-vmlinuz kernel and try to recompile the kernel. I run the usual
>config programs, run make dep etc, and try to compile the
>kernel.....Successful? Ahem...sure.
>For the first time ever, I get a segmentation fault about 5 minutes into
>compiling.....*sob*
>
>5) And while I'm here...I may as well tell you about this, as it's quite
>interesting, if quite tragic. I have the evaluation copy of McAfee antivirus
>installed on my machine, with the annnoying nag thing that crops up when you
>reboot. Now, because of this nagging, I decided to uninstall the program
>(and also because I didnt intend to buy it, natch. Piracy is theft kids!)
>Anyway, now that the offending lines have been removed from my autoexec.bat,
>I tried to reload linux with loadlin....Guess what? No way Jose. It seems
>that the pressence of the McAfee "Scan.exe" program in my autoexec is
>required before my system can boot linux. If anyone has ANY idea why this
>might be, I would be genuinely grateful.....
>
>
>Okay, just to recap....what have we got? can't boot from LILO, can't boot
>from floppy (as this uses LILO), in fact, can't boot at all without Mr
>McAfee's help. Also, can't boot with kernel, cant use kernel that works for
>anything useful, cant recompile new kernel. Deep psychological scars that
>mean I'm putting my therapist on danger money!
>
>It sounds like a complete write off to me. Please, try to help me. And
>please, dont reply to this message saying "I have no such problems,
>everything works for me!" This is the Linux equivalent of approaching a
>blind man and saying "So, you can't use your eyes? Strange, mine work fine."
>
>(coming next week: Dave tries to configure modem, soundcard, joystick,
>mouse....)
>
>Thanks folks.
>
>--
>Dave
>
>ICQ: 20806179
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (work)
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home)
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows
Date: 5 May 1999 00:23:06 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Richard Caley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <7ffo0j$ktb$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Leslie Mikesell (lm) writes:
>
>lm> A more realistic question is 'how valuable is it to survive intervals
>lm> of ridiculous overloading'? That is, if the system starts taking
>lm> 5 minutes to give you a prompt, will you leave it that way for a
>lm> while and hope it works its way back, or will you reboot so you
>lm> can go back to work immediately?
>
>Never reboot, never appologise. An unplanned reboot is a sign of major
>system brain death.
Just a practical matter.
>lm> Linux can take all the load you *should* be giving a system.
>
>Who is it to be telling me what I should and shouldn't do?
If jobs are starting faster than they are completing (say a web
server running CGI programs) the result isn't going to be pretty.
If you know how much memory the program takes (and what options
the people hitting the site will give it) you might have a chance
of limiting the number of processes to something reasonable. But,
you will probably get it wrong the first time or two unless you
use an unrealistically low number.
>The job of an OS is to survive anything and everything which doesn't
>incapacitate the hardware. With a working OS everything should be
>survivable except for someone explicitly deciding to break the
>system and saying that is what they want to do clearly and
>distinctly.
Or 10 times the number of users you expected suddenly hitting
a program that takes just a bit longer to run than you thought.
If you aren't running a web server doing 30 or more CGI hits
a second you may not understand the problem. The machine will
handle an increasing load gracefully right up to the point where
the disk swapping makes each of the hundreds of processes
take just a little longer - then it falls on its face. There
isn't much difference between Linux and freebsd in this respect.
If the load goes away, freebsd is more likely to recover with
only a few things being screwed up, but you still have to wait
a long time and you are taking the chance that the load won't
go away and the machine will crash so you have to wait for
a fsck on the way back (and both freebsd and Linux will crash
at some point).
Les Mikesell
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