Linux-Misc Digest #784, Volume #20 Fri, 25 Jun 99 11:13:12 EDT
Contents:
Re: Visual Programming Tools for Linux? (J Yarnell)
SSH (Edward Ned Harvey)
Re: Linux balkanization a potential blessing (Cameron Hutchison)
(1) Keymaps, and (2) Dial-up (Edward Ned Harvey)
Re: mail question ("test")
Re: PPP problems (Egg J. LeFume)
Re: Can't Locate ip_masq modules (Raymonds Doetjes)
Re: Linux balkanization a potential blessing (Peter da Silva)
newbie: using unzip (J Yarnell)
Re: HowTo Monitor Internet Acvities While At Work? (Dennis Breeden)
Re: Linux balkanization a potential blessing (Cameron Hutchison)
Re: Dynamically switching Ip address with a Linux Firewall (Raymonds Doetjes)
Re: Documentation issues. (Aaron M. Renn)
Re: xdiff / graphical merge utility? ("T.E.Dickey")
Re: (Newbie) Problem in mounting a DOS partition (Daniel Farinha)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: J Yarnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: Visual Programming Tools for Linux?
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:30:26 GMT
If you like java, checkout IBM's technical preview release of Visual Age for
Java for Linux. Visual Age for Java just won an award for best IDE from Java
Developer's Journal.
------------------------------
From: Edward Ned Harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: SSH
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:01:12 -0400
Can anybody tell me where to get a SSH terminal client program?
------------------------------
From: Cameron Hutchison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd.misc,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Linux balkanization a potential blessing
Date: 25 Jun 1999 13:08:20 GMT
Before going further, I should state that I originally misinterpretted what
you wrote. You said:
"And programs whose documentation is available only through a GUI are
undocumented."
In my mind I had turned this into "Any programs whose documentation is not
available through a CLI are undocumented". I'm not sure if this is what you
meant and where paper documentation fits in here.
Tom Christiansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>In comp.unix.bsd.misc, Cameron Hutchison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>:If a program is designed to run only in a GUI environment then it is not
>:unreasonable to have the documentation also available for that environment.
>This is simply misguided. Not malicious, but fundamentally and perhaps
>dangerously misguided.
Not at all. It's quite reasonable in general. Perhaps I'm being too general
though. After all these are unix newsgroups (except the gnu one of course),
so I should have read your original statement to which I replied as
something like:
"And [unix] programs whose documentation is available only through a GUI are
[as good as] undocumented."
I agree that it is important to have the docco in a format that is
consistent with the rest of the system, and I do see the value of unix man
pages with their ability to be processed by general text processing tools.
However, if all a system has is a GUI (eg. Newton PDA) then it seems to me
quite silly to state that even with its online docco, is undocumented.
>There are all kinds of corresponding situations
>where it's entirely nonsensical.
[situations deleted]
>This is not a strawman. These statements are:
> 2) Equivalent to what you just said.
Some are equivalent (CLI and Mac), the others are distortions of what I
said.
> 1) Completely ridiculous.
I agree that the distorted ones are, but dont agree that the CLI and Mac
examples were ridiculous.
> 3) Inherently opposed to the notion of power through universal
> accessibility and interchangeability.
A GUI does not exclude these features automatically. Sure, many GUIs are
poorly implemented, but nothing is truely universal anyway.
>You're telling us that it is *TOLERABLE* that one should have information
>which cannot be searched, which cannot be indexed, which cannot be
>compared, which cannot be printed, and which cannot be integrated with
>the other standard system documentation?
No, that would be a pain in the arse. But, as I have said again and again,
a GUI can have these features too (well, negate that "feature" list).
>You're right. I claim that that is *not* documentation. It's certainly
>not Unix. It's forgetting the lessons we learned, going back to the
>dark ages. This is a Macintoy monstrosity or a Wintel abomination.
>We don't want to go there. We really, really, *REALLY* don't want to
>build our own little BillLand.
Who's to say we can't do it better? Bill did it poorly because he doesn't
care about the quality of his product. Mac did it poorly because it assumes
that its users can't handle power.
>It is a notion that is more fundamentally
>Evil and Rude (cf esr) than any idea I've come across in longer than
>I care to contemplate. I recoil in abject terror as I stare into the
>bottomless Abyss. And so too should you.
Oh shock horror, a GUI!!! Banish it forever.
I am not disagreeing with your view of the power and utility of the unix
command line programs. I use them myself everyday. But I disagree that it
cannot be done equally well or better with a GUI. Just because it hasn't
been dont it doesn't meant it cant.
--
Cameron Hutchison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) | Onward To Mars
GCS d--@ -p+ c++(++++) l++ u+ e+ m+(-) s n- h++ f? !g w+ t r+
------------------------------
From: Edward Ned Harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: (1) Keymaps, and (2) Dial-up
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:35:13 -0400
There are two things I want to do, that I don't know how to do. (That I
know of.)
I would like to change the keymap file so that the Delete key maps to
Ctrl-D, the home to Ctrl-a, etc. I found the keymap file, and read
through it, but can't make any sense of it. Anybody know where to get
useful info on this?
Also, I would like to use my modem, to dial in to my ISP, but haven't a
clue how to configure it. Any suggestions?
------------------------------
From: "test" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: mail question
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:13:38 GMT
Go to http://www.dyndns.org and get a Dynamic DNS hostname. It will also
allow you to receive email.
John Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in article
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> Hi I have RedHat 5.2 installed at home and it works fine. It is connected
to
> ADSL and I have my own IP address(no domain name yet).
> I can send mail to others(i use pine) but they cannot send mail to me.
> My email acount is [EMAIL PROTECTED] and can send mail to outside
> world but outside world cannot send any mail to me.
> Anybody knows what is going on?
> what do i need to put in pine's configuration as my e-mail address so i
can
> get mail send to me?
>
> TIA
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Egg J. LeFume)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: PPP problems
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:31:33 GMT
On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:35:41 GMT, Ian Briggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Egg J. LeFume wrote:
>:I use wmppp
>
>I'm unfamilar with this. Does it allow you to write the scripts yourself?
>Either way, I recommend Bill Unruh's "How to hook up PPP" as a good
>step-by-step guide to writing the scripts -- it's at
>http://axion.physics.ubc.ca/ppp-linux.html . (Then attach ppp-on and
>ppp-off to buttons or menu items if you want a user-friendly graphical
>interface.)
wmppp is a dock app for afterstep (that's what I use, anyway).
It has buttons to start and stop a ppp connection (each button is mapped
to a user-configurable script), and shows various data about the
connection, all in the little dock app. It's available at
http://windowmaker.mezaway.org/dockapps/wmppp.html . I got and read
through the guide, and will try to work with it soon.
>:Jun 21 15:02:48 sunlink pppd[2677]: local IP address 199.234.175.129
> <snip>
>:Jun 21 15:02:52 sunlink pppd[2766]: pppd 2.3.7 started by root, uid 0
> <snip>
>:Jun 21 15:03:23 sunlink pppd[2817]: pppd 2.3.7 started by root, uid 0
> <snip>
>:Jun 21 15:03:55 sunlink pppd[2825]: pppd 2.3.7 started by root, uid 0
> <snip>
>:Jun 21 15:04:25 sunlink pppd[2831]: pppd 2.3.7 started by root, uid 0
> <snip>
>:Jun 21 15:04:55 sunlink pppd[2837]: pppd 2.3.7 started by root, uid 0
>
>I don't know why you can't kill pppd, but these endless attempts at
>starting new versions of it are unlikely to be helping! Where are they
>coming from? You may like to use Bill's guide in order to get your
>scripts working by themelves, and then attach them to a graphical
>interface when you're happy with them.
I have no idea where they come from. My guess is this: I tell
wmppp to dial in using /sbin/ifup
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-ppp1-sunlink2 , which it does, but
the line is busy. After a while, I (or whoever) click on the "logout"
button, which runs
/sbin/ifdown /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-ppp1-sunlink2 , and that
gets things all messed up with the modem lock, and redial attempts, and
the like. I'll see what I can do with the suggestions in the ppp-guide.
Thanks for the tip.
One other thing: I can't seem to find the option to tell pppd how
long to wait between dial attempts. I did have it set to 3 seconds or so
when I was running RH 5.1, (I believe I set it using netcfg) but after I
upgraded, it's back to the default 30 seconds. Any advice? Thanks.
Jamie Kufrovich
--
Egg, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FMS3amr A- C- H+ M+ P+++ R+ T Z+ Sp#
RL->CT a cu++ e++ f h+ iw+ j p- sm#
------------------------------
From: Raymonds Doetjes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Can't Locate ip_masq modules
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:35:21 +0200
Just build a new kernel and add the ip_masq modules to be compiled that
you have them again.
RH 6.0 works out of the box with the 2.2.5 kernel and probably your
ip_masq mods are still in /lib/modules/2.2.5/......... you can copy them
to the 2.2.9 /lib/modules/2.2.9/..... dir but then you have to hex edit
the version number but that works ;-)
Raymond
Horst Simon wrote:
> I had to re-install my linux do to disk failure, now I am getting for
> all my ip_masq_ftp, etc. modules the error :
> can't locate module ip_masq_ftp.
>
> It worked previously. I am running RH6.0 with Kernel 2.2.9.
> How can I get the modules back. Everything else is working
> ok.
>
> Regards,
> Horst Simon
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd.misc,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Linux balkanization a potential blessing
Date: 25 Jun 1999 12:55:02 GMT
In article <7kv5r5$sa2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Cameron Hutchison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>These (and more) define the criteria for being "documented"???
It's a quality of implementation issue. Documentation that you can manipulate
with Open Systems tools is better than documentation you need a special
browser to deal with. Even DEC found this out, and replaced their custom
hypertext documentation with HTML, and the best online documents come with
text (paper-formatted ASCII or HTML) versions as well as PDF.
Hell, MICROSOFT seems to occasionally move towards HTML and away from their
custom help files.
>That would make more sense. But instead you imply that for something to be
>documented it must be able to be manipulated with the tools you like to
>use - *command line* tools you like to use.
I can't write a script in terms of "push this button, type this in that menu"
to automatically pull a chunk of information out of a document. well, I guess
I could. I've seen screen-scraper style interfaces that do stuff like that,
but god it's painful, fragile, and flakey. It's like sending people code
via a fax machine, so they can scan and OCR it.
>Many people are not comfortable with the command line
Having an open systems document format doesn't preclude having a GUI interface
to it. Hell, all our UNIX man pages are available through our intranet web
browser thanks to Rosettaman, complete with hypertext links.
>If a program is designed to run only in a GUI environment then it is not
>unreasonable to have the documentation also available for that environment.
Absolutely.
>It the docco is also available for another environment (CLI) then thats an
>added feature, not a necessity.
Technically, no, that's not a necessity. It's sure a damn good idea, and an
important quality of implementation issue, though.
>Cameron Hutchison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) | Onward To Mars
To hell with Mars, we have unfinished business on the Moon.
--
In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
`-_-' Ar rug t� barr�g ar do mhact�re inniu?
'U` "Be vewy vewy quiet...I'm hunting Jedi." -- Darth Fudd
------------------------------
From: J Yarnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: newbie: using unzip
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:54:16 GMT
I have a .zip file that I'm trying to unzip. When I do, the directories
that get created have the permissions drw-rw-r-- If I try to 'cd' to
one of the new directories I get an 'access denied' error. I notice
that other directories have the privileges drwxr-xr-x. So if I 'chmod
a+x SomeDir' I can then 'cd' to the new dir.
So the question is, why is unzip creating these directories in a manner
that I can't get to? Is there an unzip flag to make this work better?
Does this have something to do with the zip file?
------------------------------
From: Dennis Breeden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.unix.questions,comp.os.linux.networking,microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc
Subject: Re: HowTo Monitor Internet Acvities While At Work?
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:54:35 GMT
Jimmy Navarro wrote:
> I work around huge comporate network of NT servers: SMB server, PDC,
> firewall, routers, e-mail servers, etc... Is there way to remotely
> monitor or track down employees abusing the LAN-to-Internet continuous
> connectivity surfing the WWWduring working hours with their Ethernet
> connected Windows 95/NT workstations? Any suggestion?
Check out a commercial product, EcoScope by Compuware. This is exactly
what we are doing with it.
------------------------------
From: Cameron Hutchison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd.misc,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Linux balkanization a potential blessing
Date: 25 Jun 1999 12:39:19 GMT
Tom Christiansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>In comp.unix.bsd.misc,
> Cameron Hutchison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>:. But instead you imply that for something to be
>:documented it must be able to be manipulated with the tools you like to
>:use - *command line* tools you like to use.
>God's teeth man, *yes* -- something scriptable, combinable,
>interchangeable, and automatable. Where is your head?
Any a GUI can not have these features?
Before this goes too far, I agree that the unix command line is far more
powerful than any widespread GUI thats available. I was merely objecting to
your statement:
"And programs whose documentation is available only through a GUI are
undocumented."
It's a self-contradictory statement, for starters. Perhaps you meant to say
something like "A program whose documentation is available only through a
GUI is just as bad as if that program were undocumented". But you didn't
say that.
>:Many people are not comfortable with the command line - they want a
>:different operating environment.
>Then pay Mr Bill his tithe and get the hell out of Unix.
Hell no. Windows is a piece of crap, but there's no reason than unix cannot
be operated without a command line.
--
Cameron Hutchison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) | Onward To Mars
GCS d--@ -p+ c++(++++) l++ u+ e+ m+(-) s n- h++ f? !g w+ t r+
------------------------------
From: Raymonds Doetjes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Dynamically switching Ip address with a Linux Firewall
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:44:01 +0200
I have done something like that but there are better solutions now.
I forgot how it's called, but its an extension to the dns (try
http://www.linuxapps.com)
The DNS server will check if a host and it's service is still up if not it will
cycle to the next record
Raymond
Dan Reaka wrote:
> I have Linux set up as a filtering firewall. I am using kernel 2.0.34 with
> ipportfw and ipfwadm. The machine has 2 network cards on it one on public
> ip, and the other on a private ip. Our webserver is sitting behind the
> firewall on a private ip. I would like to set up a second webserver as a
> backup machine in the event that our primary webserver goes down. The second
> webserver would be on a different private ip. I would lik the firewall to
> monitor the primary webserver (ping it at some set increment) and in the
> event that the primary is unreachabe I would like to have the firewall rules
> change to redirect port 80 to the backup server. Is there someone who has
> done this or a feature built into the kernel that allows this functionality.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks Dan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aaron M. Renn)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.unix.bsd.misc
Subject: Re: Documentation issues.
Date: 25 Jun 1999 14:10:30 GMT
On 24 Jun 1999 20:42:49 -0700, Russ Allbery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Texinfo is a really annoying documentation system.
>>> [...]
>>> If you must use hypertext docs, at least make them HTML
>
>> Yes. Yes. Yes!
>
>Having to write documentation in HTML is surely an honorary circle of
>hell.
The latest GNU "makeinfo" command (available on alpha.gnu.ai.mit.edu)
supports native HTML generation. And of course there is always texi2html.
I've looked at DocBook documents. They require markup verbose beyond
comprehension. DocBook is the COBOL of documentation format. It's only
advantage is a familiar syntax for all the AOL weenies who put up their
homepages with the <BLINK> tag and such. Texinfo is less accessible
to the beginner.
--
Aaron M. Renn ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.urbanophile.com/arenn/
------------------------------
From: "T.E.Dickey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: xdiff / graphical merge utility?
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:51:19 GMT
Philip Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:04:28 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>Philip Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>...
>>> now is there something that doesn't require tk/tcl?
>>
>>what's wrong with tcl/tk?
>>(he's more likely to have it available than Motif).
> because, as with apparently every other useful program written with those, it
> requires you to have a "special" version of the libraries compiled.
not exactly - newer versions of tkdiff use features in newer versions of tk.
> Seems tcl/tk is useless out of the box. otherwise why would there be all
> these customizations?
(I did a deja-news search to see your area of expertise to justify this
comment, but found nothing relevant)
--
Thomas E. Dickey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.clark.net/pub/dickey
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:39:41 +0100
From: Daniel Farinha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: (Newbie) Problem in mounting a DOS partition
Thanks a lot for the help :)
I actually managed to mount the partition (it is hda6 after all), which
means I must have been doing something else wrong before (perhaps using
the wrong file system, not msdos)... Doh!
BTW, now that we're at it... I noticed that my swap partition is of type
ignore(?). When I run an XWindows disk mng tool it suggests that I remove
this partition. Is it something wrong with it (am I not using the swap
properly?)
Cheers once again!
Daniel
Daniel Farinha wrote:
> Hello,
> I have just started playing with Linux (Red Hat 5.0) and I'm having
> problems in mounting a FAT16 partition.
> I have the following drives/partitions (all IDE):
>
> Drive I (master)
> partition 1 (FAT16)
> partition 2 (NTFS) WinNT
> partition 3 (FAT16)
>
> Drive II (slave)
> partition 1 (FAT32) Win98
> partition 2 (EXT2?) Linux
>
> I could mount the I1 partition using /dev/hda1 but can't mount the I3
> (which is the one I really need). I've tried almost all the /dev/hdaXX
> combinations without success...
>
> I also can't understand why my II2 partition is mapped to /dev/hdb5
> (shouldn't it be hdb2?)
>
> I bet it's really easy, can anyone please help me?
>
> Cheers
> Daniel
>
> PS: Please CC replies to me if you can.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
