Linux-Misc Digest #91, Volume #24 Sun, 9 Apr 00 19:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Cannot install (Robie Basak)
Re: uninstalling stuff (Robie Basak)
RPM doesn't write packages after compiling them (Armon.Red)
Re: uninstalling stuff ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windows 2000 has 63,000 bugs - Win2k.html [0/1] - Win2k.html [0/1] (Juice)
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Re: uninstalling stuff ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation (Mats Olsson)
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation ("Christopher Smith")
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation (The Fungus Among Us)
Re: How did the hacker get root access to my system? (Arjan Drieman)
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation ("Otto")
Re: Linux printing inadequate. (Chetan Ahuja)
Re: Linux printing inadequate. (Chetan Ahuja)
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation ("Otto")
Re: Voodoo3, X4 and 24 bits (Steve Martin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robie Basak)
Subject: Re: Cannot install
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 9 Apr 2000 20:11:30 GMT
On Sun, 09 Apr 2000 12:25:53 -0500, David .. said:
>George Bell wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I recently downloaded a newreader by ftp. The name of the file is
>> slrn-0.9.6.2.tar.gz. It is for the slrn newsreader from
>> ftp://space.mit.edu. But when I try to uncompress the file with either
>> gunzip or gzip -d command, I get
>>
>> gzip: slrn-0.9.6.2.tar.gz invalid compression data--crc error.
>>
>> Does this mean I have to go back and download the file all over again?
>>
>> Thanks
>
>I always use this to uncompress a tar.gz file.
>
> tar xzvf filename.tar.gz
They both equate to the same thing; it looks like a corrupt file so
you have to do it again, sorry. I would recommend using a program
called wget (it is in most distros, if not go to
ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/wget) which is very reliable and can
continue downloads and so on and so forth.
Robie.
--
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robie Basak)
Crossposted-To: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: uninstalling stuff
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 9 Apr 2000 20:17:47 GMT
On Sun, 09 Apr 2000 18:34:22 GMT, Simon Brooke said:
>"Simon H." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> This is basic stuff I know but I can't seem to find the relevant
>> documentation anywhere. The question is: how do I uninstall applications
>> that were installed using tar -xvzf (as opposed to RPMS which even I can
>> manage)?
>
>Hah! The short answer is you don't. That's why people invented package
>managers. The long answere is **carefully**.
If you go to freshmeat.net and search for installwatch, it watches the
file accesses an install does and writes a log (and even comes with a
script that makes an entry into the rpm database so that you can
uninstall it). I prefer it this way so I get finer control over goings
on.
Robie.
--
------------------------------
From: Armon.Red <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RPM doesn't write packages after compiling them
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 20:30:54 GMT
Howdy.
I'm having slight problems compiling MySQL. The compilation itself is not a
problem, but RPM is. Compiling it simply as a tarball is a last resort,
although I am sure of it working.
I'm one of those few left who still compile everything that enters their
Linux boxes. I'm using a PentiumIII and a Mac G3, both of which I compile
all RPM packages on.
The PentiumIII is named Jimmy and the Mac G3 is named Mia. Both of which
run Linux kernel 2.2.14 and have extremely similar configurations (a
die-hard config-it-yourself I am).
About a month back, right after I installed Linux on Jimmy, I noticed that
compiling RPMs only worked sometimes. Sometimes he would just compile and
compile and no problems at all, until he started checking out the
dependencies, which was all fine and dandy, except that after that part, he
stopped. No errors at all. Finding dependencies, and then he acted as if
everything was okay and didn't bother to write the i686.rpm package I was
planning on installing.
This was fixed by unsetting an environment variable by the name of
$LINGUAS. Everything ran fine after that. Complements of SearchLinux.com.
Now I'm having precisely the same problem with Mia.
For clarification, I installed Mandrake 7.0 (which I don't recommend, may I
add) on Jimmy. I installed Yellow Dog on Mia, which is a PPC distribution
and has worked out fine.
There are only two things different between the two incidents where this
problem occurred on Jimmy and Mia. On Jimmy, it happened on about 60-70% of
packages which I tried to compile. On Mia, it happens only with this MySQL
package. The second thing that's different, is that on Mia, there is no
variable named $LINGUAS, so I can't fix it the same way, obviously.
I was just wondering if anyone had the same problem and/or possibly a
solution.
P.S. I would appreciate a response being sent to me by e-mail as well as
being posted here in case others have the same problem. :) Just a request,
not a condition.
Thanks in advance.
Armon.Red
armon @ islandia . is
--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: uninstalling stuff
Date: 9 Apr 2000 16:29:43 -0400
Best way is to always KEEP the original .tar.gz file so that you can view
it's contents later to see where it put itself. Of course this only works if
you have the binary version, if you get the source and compile it yourself...
good luck searching though the Makefile to see what happens when you run $make
install.
Check out TkZip-1.0.15.tar.gz if you want a gui version of tar and zip
(like WinZip), it lets you view files w/o uncompressing them w/o having to dig
through the man pages too much. (and unlike other silly programs it puts
itself in ONE single directory for easy removal)
-John
ps. I personally think that the way programs spray themselves all over your
system is terrible. One program, one job, ONE directory. Of course there are
exceptions and sometimes, yes it does make more sense to spread them out...
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (R
obie Basak) writes:
>On Sun, 09 Apr 2000 18:34:22 GMT, Simon Brooke said:
>>"Simon H." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>>> This is basic stuff I know but I can't seem to find the relevant
>>> documentation anywhere. The question is: how do I uninstall applications
>>> that were installed using tar -xvzf (as opposed to RPMS which even I can
>>> manage)?
>>
>>Hah! The short answer is you don't. That's why people invented package
>>managers. The long answere is **carefully**.
>
>If you go to freshmeat.net and search for installwatch, it watches the
>file accesses an install does and writes a log (and even comes with a
>script that makes an entry into the rpm database so that you can
>uninstall it). I prefer it this way so I get finer control over goings
>on.
>
>Robie.
>--
>
------------------------------
From: *[EMAIL PROTECTED]* (Juice)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.redhat
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 has 63,000 bugs - Win2k.html [0/1] - Win2k.html [0/1]
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 21:21:45 GMT
On Sat, 8 Apr 2000 04:23:40 -0400, Scott E. Regener
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thus, while a particular application *may*
>work properly after being restarted without a reboot, Windows users have been
>trained to *always* reboot, just in case.
>
I've trained myself to re-install the whole damn thing. ;-) It's so
fast for that first couple of days. =8-)
------------------------------
Reply-To: <btolder>
From: <btolder>
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 13:48:48 -0700
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.misc btolder wrote:
> >> Not very good at maths, are you? Even if you get the full priced distro
> >> of, say, SuSE at 25 quid, you can install that legally on as many
> >> machines as you want. Yours, your companys, your friends, all at no
extra
> >> cost.
> >>
> >> Try that with M$ windows, and see how fast you get accused of software
> >> piracy.
>
> > The cost of M$ software is incredibly reasonable. It's running about $90
> > every 3 years for an OS upgrade. That's $30 per year. Most companies
budget
> > more for office supplies and copies per employee per year.
>
> Nope. That's $30 per year, PER machine. A company with 50 machines would
> have to pay $1500 (using YOUR costing, which is WILDLY inaccurate).
Well, thanks for the quick math there, hero. Yes, a company with 50 machines
would need 50 licenses. You are also right, a compay rolling out for 50
employees would pay much less than $30/year/seat.
My point still stands, however, that companies budget more per year per
employee for staples and post it notes than they do for Microsoft operating
systems. Your cost argument means nothing.
------------------------------
Reply-To: <btolder>
From: <btolder>
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 13:51:24 -0700
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
fungus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> Robert Moir wrote:
> >
> > the cost of supporting that user's operating system and apps comes
> > to a lot more than $30 per person per year.
>
> Yep. The TCO of Microsoft operating systems has always been
> one of the highest (all those reboots and reinstalls...)
Study after study refutes this even on Win95. Win2K was the final nail in
the coffin. Sorry.
------------------------------
Reply-To: <btolder>
From: <btolder>
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 14:00:34 -0700
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> Then you would lose that bet. The MacOS has been repeadedly show to have
> a much lower ownership cost when support is factoredd in. Linux, FreeBSD
> and the other *nix varieties can have a $0 purchase price, and are
> certainly no more expensive to maintain.
I can find a long list of articles stating Windows has a lower cost of
ownership (even compared to Mac), but have never seen an article stating
that to be true for Linux. Can you please provide a pointer?
------------------------------
Reply-To: <btolder>
From: <btolder>
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 14:13:18 -0700
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Charles R. Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > The cost of M$ software is incredibly reasonable. It's running about $90
> > every 3 years for an OS upgrade. That's $30 per year. Most companies
budget
> > more for office supplies and copies per employee per year.
> Priced Office recently? Gates could give away the OS just to make sure
> you had no choice but run his applications. But people are still willing
> to pay for the OS, which costs pennies to produce, but brings in dollars
> (or pounds).
At work I simply click a button to install the latest software, and
microsoft is included in the list so I have no idea what my employer paid
for Office.
MS Office Upgrade standard comes with word, excel, powerpoint and outlook
and costs $229 (CompUSA). You can upgrade from just about anything,
including Lotus 2.x for DOS! So there really isn't any reason for anyone to
be paying for a non-upgrade version.
Corel is selling their suite for $289 (CompUSA) and it includes word
processing, spreadsheet, presentation, and a PIM application. It also offers
web publishing, which MS word does. It also doesn't have email.
So I don't see that Microsoft's office programs are all that unreasonable.
In fact, they are a much better value than something like Corel.
------------------------------
Reply-To: <btolder>
From: <btolder>
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 14:18:04 -0700
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > The cost of M$ software is incredibly reasonable. It's running about $90
> > every 3 years for an OS upgrade. That's $30 per year. Most companies
budget
> > more for office supplies and copies per employee per year.
>
> Except that becasue of economies of scale, it SHOULD be MUCH cheaper.
Microsoft runs the risk of being accused of "dumping" the OS if it is much
cheaper. The current climate is so tense that Microsoft is getting accused
of both dumping and over-charging in the same trial for the same product.
In any case, Microsoft has one the right to charge whatever they want for
their products. When Microsoft dumped their first billion into developing
Windows, there was zero assurance it would suceed. In fact, the heavyweights
at the time (IBM, Harvard Graphics, Lotus) all expected the market to go
another direction.
High risk bets return very high rewards. It is as simple as that.
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: uninstalling stuff
Date: 9 Apr 2000 21:23:32 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
: Best way is to always KEEP the original .tar.gz file so that you can view
: it's contents later to see where it put itself. Of course this only works if
: you have the binary version, if you get the source and compile it yourself...
: good luck searching though the Makefile to see what happens when you run $make
: install.
It's not necessary.
touch /tmp/foo
make install
find / -type f -cnewer /tmp/foo
Or some variant. And you can just log the install too.
: ps. I personally think that the way programs spray themselves all over your
: system is terrible. One program, one job, ONE directory. Of course there are
: exceptions and sometimes, yes it does make more sense to spread them out...
Well, you are saying "group by origin" instead of "group by type". You
can have it both ways if you log where you put your packages!
Peter
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mats Olsson)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: 9 Apr 2000 21:34:17 GMT
In article <eIsDuemo$GA.304@cpmsnbbsa04>, <btolder> wrote:
>
>Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
>> Then you would lose that bet. The MacOS has been repeadedly show to have
>> a much lower ownership cost when support is factoredd in. Linux, FreeBSD
>> and the other *nix varieties can have a $0 purchase price, and are
>> certainly no more expensive to maintain.
>
>I can find a long list of articles stating Windows has a lower cost of
>ownership (even compared to Mac),
Cool. Mind posting an URL?
/Mats
------------------------------
From: "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 07:47:07 +1000
"Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> btolder wrote:
> > The cost of M$ software is incredibly reasonable. It's running about $90
> > every 3 years for an OS upgrade. That's $30 per year. Most companies
budget
> > more for office supplies and copies per employee per year.
>
> Except that becasue of economies of scale, it SHOULD be MUCH cheaper.
Then, of course, they get charged with dumping.....
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Fungus Among Us)
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 21:53:39 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
fungus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
> btolder wrote:
>>
>> The cost of M$ software is incredibly reasonable. It's running
>> about $90 every 3 years for an OS upgrade. That's $30 per year.
>> Most companies budget more for office supplies and copies per
>> employee per year.
>
> Have you actually _seen_ the price of Windows 2000, Microsoft's
> new "office" operating system????
>
> Combine it with a copy of Office and you'll get a lot more than
> $30 per year.
>
>
> Now remember that this price is what nearly every computer
> in every office in the entire world is earning Microsoft.
> Do you still they aren't making much profit?
Thing is, *legally*, companies are supposed to pay for every copy of the
software they use. It's right there on the license. I have no clue how
MS handles volume discounts for 25+ user companies, which I expect to be
somewhat cheaper than actually buying those 25+ copies in the store. How
much cheaper, I have no clue, but I rather doubt MS would just give them
away. That makes zero business sense for them, and they're not exactly in
the charity market, y'know...
As to how many companies buy *one* copy and put it on every workstation in
the house, well, I'm clueless on that too. They tell me Win98 is the most
pirated piece of software around. Legally, I suspect some companies are
doing naughty things. (grin)
Keven
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arjan Drieman)
Crossposted-To: alt.2600,alt.linux,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: How did the hacker get root access to my system?
Date: 9 Apr 2000 22:01:07 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 08 Apr 2000 17:55:43 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'm trying to determine how a hacker got into my Linux 6.1 server and
>would love some help.
>
>I have determined that the hacker must have had root access. He
>installed some IRC bot garbage, and prior to that I can see he
>installed oidentd-1.6.4 on March 30th (I'm not entirely sure what that
oident is an ident daemon. When you connect to an IRC server, the
server often connects to your "auth" port to ask if the user/server
information the client gave to the server is genuine. The ident
daemon takes care of such requests.
Arjan
--
Absence is to love what wind is to fire.
It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.
------------------------------
From: "Otto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 22:14:11 GMT
"Grant Edwards" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:kfJH4.1029$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sat, 08 Apr 2000 15:47:37 GMT, Otto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Every company, which ever developed anything, will recuperate
> >the cost of the R & D. Microsoft is not different in that
> >respect.
>
> Except that they've never developed anything. Not anything new
> anyway. MS products are mostly just bloated, crappy copies of
> stuff other people invented.
>
That would explain why Windows OS has 90+ % of the market share.
Otto
------------------------------
From: Chetan Ahuja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux printing inadequate.
Date: 9 Apr 2000 22:17:55 GMT
Peter T. Breuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spoke thusly:
> Chetan Ahuja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : Grant Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spoke thusly:
> :> On Sun, 09 Apr 2000 09:51:51 -0400, Ralph C Blach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> :> What do you mean "a setup menu?" Most of us would consider
> :> printool as "a setup menu" -- you don't?
> : OK.. I think I would jump in here. I think what Ralph means is that
> : you can't choose print options AT THE TIME OF printing a document. I
> Maybe that is what he means. I don't know. But you certainly can.
> Any gui (e.g. soffice, wp8 ..) will offer you a menu to choose your
> printer of preference for the job at hand.
> Maybe what you are saying is that you can't configure new printers on
> the fly. You can, the menu can call "system(printtool)" and then reread
> printcap. What you are probably saying is that nobody has bothered
> to write a general menu which you can call as
> printmenu(document);
> They have. Several times.
> : respect. That is, it doesn't present a powerful uniform printing system
> : interface to all the applications which allows user to choose
> : various printing options ( e.g. quality of printout etc.)
> : easily AT THE TIME OF printing. Maybe you could fiddle with
> It's just a question of which printer you want to send it too. If you
> are saying that there's no continuous spectrum, well, I wasn't aware
> that there were a continuous range of printer settings available.
I mentioned the method of assigning different printer entries in
printcap to mean print jaob being sent with different options (to
the same physical printer) I have done it myself lots of times and
it's a well know technique used on all sorts of networks. The point
is that it's not convenient for all users to have to remember
the mapping between printer names and corresponding options. And as
for various GUI applications providing their own print dialogs,
I count that as another problem ( not to mention the fact that not
too many people I know use SO or WP on linux/unix to do their major word
processing) What I want is for some standard way ( across platforms
etc) for lpr to pass various options (print quality, duplex etc) to
lpd and for lpd to pass them on to the magic filters/ghostscropt
or whatever at the backend to process the spooled job. Then
administrators or distributions would be free to use local scripts
to provide easy shell printing front-end to the users and GUI
applications would have a much easier time presenting users with all
the printer specific options in a print dialog and then just using
lpr in an intelligent way to pass those options on to the printer.
> : remember what each printer name means. Of course there's the problem
> : of manufaturers only providing drivers for windows etc. But this
> : problem goes beyond drivers and is in some way inherent in the
> : non-interactive nature of printing that lpr/lpd combo provides.
> The interaction can occur before that, when you choose which "Logical
> printer" to send to. You can also choose which kind of postscript to
> send, I suppose, but that's up to your rendering engine. Can't you
> just call ghostscript with the right options?
I can call ghostscript with all sorts of magical incantations but
the point is, it's not easy for most users of a unix
installation. Read the suggestion above.
Chetan
> Peter
------------------------------
From: Chetan Ahuja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux printing inadequate.
Date: 9 Apr 2000 22:29:39 GMT
Leslie Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spoke thusly:
> In article <8cqg4d$b7k$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Peter T. Breuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Chetan Ahuja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>: Grant Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spoke thusly:
>>:> On Sun, 09 Apr 2000 09:51:51 -0400, Ralph C Blach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>:> What do you mean "a setup menu?" Most of us would consider
>>:> printool as "a setup menu" -- you don't?
>>
>>: OK.. I think I would jump in here. I think what Ralph means is that
>>: you can't choose print options AT THE TIME OF printing a document. I
>>
>>Maybe that is what he means. I don't know. But you certainly can.
>>Any gui (e.g. soffice, wp8 ..) will offer you a menu to choose your
>>printer of preference for the job at hand.
> The piece that is really missing compared to windows is the
> ability for an application to know internal details of
> the selected printer (internal fonts, paper types and trays, etc.)
> and thus have the ability to change these things within
> a single document (like printing an envelope, the first page
> on letterhead, the rest on plain, and collating these correctly
> in the output tray). On the other hand, applications are
> generally free to pipe through any preprocessing filter or
> arbitrary program instead of sending directly to the printer
> interface which is next to impossible under windows - I've
> sometimes mapped a printer to a samba-served program on a Linux
> box just to get this ability.
Check out redmon from ghostscript site. It's a windows printer
redirector which allows you redirect any print jobs sent to some
dummy printer ( installed on windows ) to another, actual, printer
node via whatever filters you like ( e.g ghostscript) I am
using it to print my postscript print jobs from the network to a
canon bjc 6000 printer ( which has no native ghostscript filter.)
The following diagram explains what I do:
Linux Box Windows Box
________ ___________________
| | shared folder etc.
| samba |
(ps file)------------> | (shared
| | dummy
printer)-->redmon-->Ghostscript_using_mswinpr2-->Actual Printer
________| |_________________
This allows me to use the actual windows driver for my printer. Life
is happy.
Chetan
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Otto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 22:38:25 GMT
"Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > fungus (thanks) provided the correct link, but the content made no
> > difference.
> >
>
> Thats becasue you simply ignore the facts.
Facts or urban legends?
> > That remains to be seen if Microsoft will jack up the prices of their
> > products. You'd be hard to press to name another software company who's
> > software is cheaper than Microsoft's.
> >
>
> Thats true. There is less expensive software, but Microsoft's is
> definitely cheaper, even when it costs more.
Interesting logic.....
>
> > Again, it isn't something what other software companies are not doing.
Have
> > you ever looked at other software companies version numbers? There isn't
any
> > subtle difference between their versions either, why are you picking on
> > Microsoft?
> >
>
> I guess you didnt notice that Micorsoft engineer's have been quoting as
> saying W95 was merely device drivers added to W3.1.
And the urban legend continues....
>
> > Linux is not a free product, you try to get that into your head. Have
you
> > walked into CompUSA and looked at the prices lately? I didn't think so.
> > You didn't even buy your copy for $2 @cheapbytes, conveniently forgot to
> > mention the shipping cost. So, you paid $7, which is NOT free. You don't
> > want me to quote the definition of free, do you?
> > I burn my own CDs for Linux from ISO images, even that is not free.
> >
>
> Get this. Linux is "free", in that it is freely distributable. It can
> also be "free" in that you can DL it for free 0$. The 2$ you pay
> cheapbytes is not for the software, it is for the CD. The shipping
> charge is not for the software, it is for the shipping. You CAN DL it
> for $0... free.
The end result is the same, which is $7 including shipping. Downloading
isn't free either, one need a connection to the web (speedy one is
preferable) and a CD burner. Not to mention the cost of the CD in itself.
However you're correct, Linux is freely distributable with the exception of
the commercial software. I should know, I've been doing it since the RH
version 5.0.
> Actually, untill M$ was pulled into court, you couldnt readily purchase
> an Intel/clone computer without Windows pre-installed. It is still hard
> to get one without Windows pre-installed, AND the cost of the Windows
> removed from the purchase price.
>
That's not true, the last PC I bought with OS pre-installed had Windows3.1
on it. Since then this is my fifth PC and none of them came pre-loaded with
any OS. It is not Microsoft which installs the OS on the PCs, it is the
OEMs. They are also the ones who aren't willing to sell you the PC without
OS. Go to the small OEMs, they've been willing to sell PCs without OS since
1995.
Otto
------------------------------
From: Steve Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Voodoo3, X4 and 24 bits
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 18:46:57 -0400
Alex Kaufman wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "D. Stimits"
> >
> > I'm wondering if the Voodoo 3 itself supports 24 bit. I was thinking
> > somewhere I saw it works only at 16 bit or less. This might not be
> > right, but it would be worth checking out.
>
> You're right, V3 won't do above 16 bit. Otherwise great card
Incorrect! I'm running a Voodoo3 2000 PCI here under RH6 and XF86 3.3.3,
and it's running in 32-bit mode as verified by xdpyinfo.
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