Linux-Misc Digest #131, Volume #24 Wed, 12 Apr 00 19:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation (Patrick O'Neil)
Re: Stopping and starting daemons (Robie Basak)
Please help me ("John P")
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation ("Robert Barry")
Re: trouble with Storm Linux 2000 install ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [FLAME] Re: monitoring users (Juergen Heinzl)
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation (Grant Edwards)
Re: making bootable disk in linux (Grant Edwards)
Re: Programming Languages on Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: ipgrab packet sniffer now at Sourceforge (jose)
Re: kppp says pppd not set right (Dances With Crows)
help with ftp ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation ("Otto")
Re: making bootable disk in linux (Dances With Crows)
Re: trouble with Storm Linux 2000 install (Edward M Grill)
Re: Please help me (Dances With Crows)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Patrick O'Neil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 15:14:11 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, Patrick O'Neil wrote:
> >
> > What planet are YOU from? The court's decisions ARE the law. They are
> > the FINAL and ONLY interpreters of the law. Not you, not your sister,
> > not your neighbor. Your congressclown creates the laws, and if they
> > pass Constitutional muster (AS DETERMINED BY THE COURTS...NOT YOU),
> > they go into law and then they belong to the courts. The courts
> > ARE the arbitors of what is and is not the law by definition.
>
> I'm sure that if you hunt around you can find a copy of the US
> Constitution. If you read it, you will learn how laws are passed.
Yes and guess what? The freakin courts are they who determine just
what is and is not Constitutional. I repeat, not you, not your sister,
not Bill Gates. The COURTS. Not congressclowns, not the president.
The courts.
patrick
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robie Basak)
Subject: Re: Stopping and starting daemons
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 12 Apr 2000 21:20:33 GMT
On 12 Apr 2000 19:27:09 GMT, John Roberts said:
>Greetings all;
>
> In some of the HOWTO'S the authors talk about stopping and re-starting
>daemons; so configurations can take place. I know that I can type ps and
>kill
>the daemon that way. Is starting the daemon as easy as typing the daemon's
>name; lpd for for example?
Starting a daemon in this way may work in most cases; however some
require certain command line switches and so forth, and stopping them
with kill will also work in most cases, but some may want a different
signal from TERM. A preferred way would be to do what your system does
on booting/shutting down/changinging runlevel, which is to call the
corresponding script in /etc/rc.d/init.d/.
For example:
/etc/rc.d/init.d/lpd stop
would stop lpd,
/etc/rc.d/init.d/lpd start
would start it again,
/etc/rc.d/init.d/lpd status
will tell you about it.
Robie.
--
------------------------------
From: "John P" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Please help me
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:44:55 +1000
Hi People
I installed Redhat 5.2 on my pentuim 200. It will not boot from the
HDD, I can on;ly use a boot disk. It is a single OS machine. When I try to
boot from the HDD reports "no [ACTIVE PARTITION] found insert system disk
and press enter" I use the boot disk and it boots into LILO fine. LILO is
installed in the MBR. Please rspond by e-mail as it is easier to read.
Thanx Heaps
John P
------------------------------
From: "Robert Barry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 14:55:51 -0700
To use your book example:
I would say Windows, IE, MS Office, etc are all separate books. They are
not chapters of the same book.
So MS is saying to buy the windows book you must buy all our other books and
put them up on your bookshelf.
I don't think that is legal. In my opinion that is tying one separate
product to another.
Bob.
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, Robert Barry wrote:
>
> > I heard a good illustration of how Microsoft is abusing its monopoly
status.
> > It goes like this:
> > Microsoft is the only company that sells milk.
>
> Repeat after me, Microsoft does not sell the only PC operating system.
> Since your premise isn't true, everything that follows is just so much
> ranting.
>
> > Everybody needs to milk.
> > Another company makes bread
> > Microsoft wants to enter the bread market.
> > Microsoft tells its customers (oem & retail) that to buy its milk
you
> > must also buy its bread.
> >
> > That tying is what's illegal. You can't leverage your monopoly
position
> > in milk to bread that way.
>
> I want to use Chapter 13 of Robert Barry's book, Crackpot Economics, when
> I teach my Econ 101 class. Robert Barry's publisher says "we're not going
> to sell you just chapter 13, you have to buy the whole damn book." How is
> that different than what you claim Microsoft is doing?
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: trouble with Storm Linux 2000 install
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 17:01:34 +0000
FWIW:
Storm L2K hung on me in the graphical install but worked fine it the text install.
rick carroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hey.. im trying to instal Storm Linux 2000 (Rain Release) and I'm having
> problems with package installs. it says
> "installing base files" on a a window but never gets past 0%
> then it moves on to Initializing packages for installation (or something
> of the sort) and goes to 100%. then hangs
>
> if I press Alt+F4 i get a "storm login:" prompt where I can login as
> root, but when I try to run scripts or executables it says permission
> denied...
>
> any suggestions?
> please email me @ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Juergen Heinzl)
Subject: Re: [FLAME] Re: monitoring users
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:03:42 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, J. C. wrote:
>In article <8d2d1n$1kh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andreas Kahari
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>: What is so dangerous with your workers viewing politically incorrect
>: things from the web or send politically incorrect emails to eachother?
>: Do *you* decide what's correct and what's not?
>:
>
>You're missing the point. When you work for me, I have an absolute
>right to monitor both your time and your use of my equipment. Your time
>belongs to me, subject to the terms of your contract with me, or to the
>collective agreement I may have signed with your union. I have a right
>to know what you're doing with that time, and to decide whether your
>use of that time (that I'm paying for) is appropriate to my needs.
>Likewise, I own the computer you use, and I have a right to decide how
>you use it. That's it, that's all. If you don't like it, you quit.
[...]
Just out of experience .. people tend to be more productive when
working in an environment of trust and personally I do not have any
problems with working at home, for the sake of my company, without
caring much about the time spent.
It's the difference between "The" and "My company". My current one
is mine too and I do feel responsible for it, although being
just one out of many others. Might be I am just getting old and this
is an out dated sort of work ethics, but if so, I could not care less.
>What you do at home on your own time with your own equipment is (and
>should be) your business.
[...]
I guess I would quit and apply for a job at the company I work for
now. It is a great company and I consider myself being very lucky to
have gotten the job here.
If things should go out of hand though I'd see the point, but then,
I think, the problem is not a technical one anymore anyway and a
solution is going to be a wee bit more demanding.
Mind I do not know you or you company, so it was not and is not
my intention to judge you or your company here.
Cheers,
Juergen
--
\ Real name : J�rgen Heinzl \ no flames /
\ EMail Private : [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ send money instead /
------------------------------
From: grant@nowhere. (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:04:26 GMT
In article <Rc6J4.759$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Robert Barry wrote:
>To use your book example:
>
>I would say Windows, IE, MS Office, etc are all separate books. They are
>not chapters of the same book.
>So MS is saying to buy the windows book you must buy all our other books and
>put them up on your bookshelf.
>
>I don't think that is legal. In my opinion that is tying one separate
>product to another.
IANAL, but the way I understand it: whether tying one product
to another is legal depends on whether you hold a monopoly on
one of the products.
If you are not a monopoly, you can tie your products together
all you want.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Remember, in 2039,
at MOUSSE & PASTA will
visi.com be available ONLY by
prescription!!
------------------------------
From: grant@nowhere. (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: making bootable disk in linux
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:07:17 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>i don't know how to make bootable disk in linux
>
>pls. help me
Please define what you mean by "bootable disk". Floppy,
CDROM, hard drive, LS120, Zip? Do you want a whole system on
teh disk or just boot up a system on another drive?
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! LOOK!!! I'm WALKING
at in my SLEEP again!!
visi.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Programming Languages on Linux
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:04:34 GMT
In article <8d2apt$qfa$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Kelly) wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Lew Pitcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Peet Grobler wrote:
> >>
> >> What programming languages are there on linux? I know about C++,
Fortran and
> >> Pascal. But anything else? Anything that's "own" to Linux?
> [snip]
[..]
> btw-anyone use the free version of Eiffel recently?
Yes. The compiler is known as SmallEiffel (The GNU Eiffel compiler):
http://smalleiffel.loria.fr/
with a Repository of useful libraries available from here:
http://smalleiffel.loria.fr/general/repository.html
SmallEiffel interfaces with existing C libraries very easily
and I have recently added support to GD, jpg and Zlib.
> I read Object
> Oriented Software Construction years back and was always curious
> about it.
There is now a second edition:
* OOSC2: Object-Oriented Software Construction, Second Edition
http://www.elj.com/elj.cgi?article=19990810b
> Care to share any thoughts about Eiffel code writing
> experience and maybe how it feels similar or different than C++
> or Smalltalk or other OO languages etc.??
* [C++ Report] Eiffel for Native Speakers of C++
http://www.elj.com/eiffel/cpp/cpp-report-pd/
* Eiffel vs C++ : One language designer's view - (from 1989 !)
http://www.elj.com/eiffel/bm/eiffelvscpp89/
* C++??: A Critique of C++ (3rd Ed.) and
Programming and Language Trends of the 1990s
http://www.elj.com/cppcv3/
> Also maybe how easy
> or difficult it is to install and use on a Linux PC would be
> of interest.
It is very easy to install on most platforms including Linux:
* [SmallEiffel] SmallEiffel Linux Installation
http://www.elj.com/elj.cgi?article=19991018d
If there are problems then you can always ask the active SmallEiffel
Mailing list:
http://smalleiffel.loria.fr/support/mailing-list.html
Other good Eiffel resources includes Cetus Links:
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_eiffel.html
http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_eiffel_libraries.html
Hope this helps ..
Geoff Eldridge
-- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- http://www.elj.com/elj-daily.cgi
> TIA
>
> --
>
> Mike
> --
> "I don't want to belong to any club that would have *me* as a member!"
> -- Groucho Marx
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: jose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: ipgrab packet sniffer now at Sourceforge
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 18:32:09 -0400
Patrick O'Neil wrote:
> Now we just need a stealthy packet sniffer. LoPhT released a
> sniffer detector that simply finds computers on the network
> that are in promiscuous mode, required for sniffing. If there
> were some way around this...or perhaps a chirping sniffer, it
> could sniff off and on, hopefully missing the scans the anti-
> sniffer makes on a net.
you're forgetting that people discussed this late last summer when
AntiSniff came out. there is the anti-antisniff-sniffer, check the
BUGTRAQ archives. :)
the problem is it will not work against similar tools to detect
sniffers. want a stealthy sniffer? a firewall blocking any traffic out
will do it. or don't initialize the IP stack and rely on the BPF on a
BSD system. several possibilities were mentioned in the discussion, and
it was well populated by very bright people.
jose nazario [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Subject: Re: kppp says pppd not set right
Date: 12 Apr 2000 18:39:42 EDT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 12 Apr 2000 16:05:56 -0400, G. R. Gaudreau
<<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> shouted forth into the ether:
>On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, Bill Unruh wrote:
>>On the other hand, kppp tends to like to be suid root as well. This is a
>>real security hole and I have no faith that kppp has been written with
>>security in mind. If so you may have to find the kppp binary (whereis
>I'm relatively new to Linux: Why would that be a security whole?
A program that's SUID root can do anything root can do, including delete
all the files on the disk. SUID programs should be checked very, very
thoroughly for potential problems like buffer overruns.
If you don't want to have kppp SUID root, then do this:
(create a group called "dialout")
# chown root.dialout /dev/ttyS[0-1] `which kppp`
# chmod 2755 `which kppp`
Then, kppp will be SGID to group "dialout" instead of SUID to root, and
potential buffer overruns in kppp would be quite a bit less dangerous
since all group "dialout" can do is mess with the serial ports. This
solution is documented in the online help for kppp as well.
(That said, I think Bill U. is being a bit paranoid re: kppp... with the
large userbase kppp has, if there were any wretched security holes,
someone probably would've found and reported them by now.)
--
Matt G / Dances With Crows \###| Programmers are playwrights
There is no Darkness in Eternity \##| Computers are lousy actors
But only Light too dim for us to see \#| Lusers are vicious drama critics
(Unless, of course, you're working with NT)\| BOFHen burn down theatres.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: help with ftp
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:34:06 GMT
I have inherited a linux system, where I cannot send a file via ftp
(logged onto the linux system)to another system. However, I can receive
files from other systems using recv. I have checked the security on the
other system and it does allow people to upload files. The message I
get on the linux box is "Acess is denied". I am logged on as root and
the file is being tranasfered to a winnt 4 server.
Please help, I am also new to Linux but have worked with SCO Unix for a
copule of years
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Otto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:40:41 GMT
"Harlan Grove" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <sQXI4.50326
> $[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Otto"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >"fungus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >>Otto wrote:
> >>>
> >>>You can market a product as much as you want to. If
> >>>people don't want it the product will fail.
> >>
> >>Products can succeed indirectly.
> >>
> >>Not many people really want to buy gasoline, but they
> >>want the car and buying gas is part of car owning.
> >
> >There is alternative fuel vehicles but there isn't
> >many people who use them, or want to use them.
>
> Good analogy, albeit unintended. There isn't a market in
> alternative fuel vehicles in no small part because there
> are almost no places to buy alternative fuels. It's not
> just the product, it's also the whole infrastructure needed
> to use the product that must exist.
The "unintended" part of the above can be argued....
>
> >>The same with a computer. People want computers, but
> >>I bet they wouldn't really care what OS is running
> >>so long as it makes the computer do what they want
> >>it to do.
> >
> >Or to be more exact, people want Windows computers.
> >Presently it is the only platform which does what the
> >masses want.
No argument here....
>
> Only in the sense that it's the only OS that runs Windows
> software. Most people care about application software. The
> OS is not the primary consideration. Microsoft Office and
> most of the rest of Microsoft's applications offerings
> could be ported to Linux or OS/2 without much difficulty.
> There'd be a good-sized market for these products. Why
> hasn't this happened? Perhaps because Microsoft perfers to
> use Office and its other apps to cement its hold on
> desktops. And many people would prefer buying Macs if only
> Apple weren't as much of a monopoly pricer as Microsoft and
> if there were more apps and games for Macs.
It isn't only Microsoft applications which could be ported to other
platforms. There are quite of few third party apps which also could be
ported. Since porting and support does cost money, it would cut into the
profit margin of the software company. It is a lot more lucrative to support
a well estabilished platform, than just couple of percent of the market.
Snip....
> What Windows provides is the largest variety of application
> software not so much because it's a better development and
> operating platform than other OS's, rather because it
> presents developers with a potential customer base at least
> one order of magnitude larger than any other OS.
That in itself reminds me the chicken and the egg scenerio. At the beginning
there wasn't many applications for the Microsoft OS, for that matter there
was no MS OS not too long ego. As people started to like the price and ease
of use of the "new" OS the software companies jumped on the bandwagon. Once
the MS platform proved to be lucrative the other platforms were dropped by
the software companies. That in itself made other OSs almost extinct. By no
means Microsoft is totally innocent in this "progress". They did what any
other company would've done in their place, which ensure that the dominance
will continue.
> >I'm not aware that Microsoft owns any network protocols,
> >well at least not the ones which counts. Proprietary stuff
> >tends to have copyrights and there isn't much what the DOJ
> >can do about that. That in itself will limit what the DOJ
> >can/will do.
>
> Only very technically correct. The DOJ can do nothing.
I'm affraid what the DOJ will do. Not because I don't want MS split into
part, although that in itself is a good enough reason for me. Government
regulating a fast changing field is a bad idea on the long run. The fallout
from this could ripple through the next decade for every company, not just
Microsoft.
>
> The court, on the other hand, can force conversion of
> assets. If the court has the power to split Microsoft into
> several (hopefully) competing companies, what leads you to
> think that minor things like copyrights would be sacrosanct?
"Hopefully" is right. I'm not to convinced that Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer
as the CEOs of the new companies would change a lot.
>
> Not too clear on US antitrust law, are you?
That isn't necessarily bad, at least I'm not a lawyer :).
>
> What Microsoft really needs to lose it the vertical
> integration that provides the applications development
> units with specs for new versions of Windows before other
> application developers get them as well as being enjoined
> from giving any price breaks to any OEMs or resellers for
> anything other than volume discounts.
That was more than a mouthful, albeit well put. It basically requires
regulating Microsoft by the government to achive the above set goals. That
remains to be seen if it happens and if it does, how it'll be implemented.
> As for proprietary
> ASP/browser stuff, Microsoft could be specifically enjoined
> from adding any proprietary features or required to fully
> disclose the specs.
>
If Apple can have propriatery features, why can't Microsoft have them?
Otto
Otto
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Subject: Re: making bootable disk in linux
Date: 12 Apr 2000 18:44:05 EDT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 12 Apr 2000 18:30:06 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> shouted forth into the ether:
>hi,
>i don't know how to make bootable disk in linux
http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Bootdisk-HOWTO.html
http://www.toms.net/rb (Tom's RootBoot, a bootable rescue system)
# dd if=/boot/vmlinuz of=/dev/fd0
Some distributions ship with a script called "mkbootdisk", but don't rely
on canned tools to do a job you should know how to do from scratch.
--
Matt G / Dances With Crows \###| Programmers are playwrights
There is no Darkness in Eternity \##| Computers are lousy actors
But only Light too dim for us to see \#| Lusers are vicious drama critics
(Unless, of course, you're working with NT)\| BOFHen burn down theatres.
------------------------------
From: Edward M Grill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: trouble with Storm Linux 2000 install
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 18:42:41 -0400
Rick,
i am not currently using Storm, but have used it in the recent past before
installing Mandrake 7.0. i had this problem but never went into the login
with alt+f4. my packages would begin to install, not install, and / or not
finishh. when time to reboot to start would not get past ' LI '. perhaps try
reinstalling using different MODES for you HardDrive. LBA, LARGE,
AUTO....change these around in your BIOS / CMOS setting.
when i changed mine from NORMAL to LBA everything worked fine. but, in your
case you are actually getting to the ' login ' screen, which i never made it
to. but let me know if this helps. they mention this fix at
http://www.stormix.com/support/faq/index_html check it out. hope this
helps :>)
eddie
"rick carroll" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> hey.. im trying to instal Storm Linux 2000 (Rain Release) and I'm having
> problems with package installs. it says
> "installing base files" on a a window but never gets past 0%
> then it moves on to Initializing packages for installation (or something
> of the sort) and goes to 100%. then hangs
>
> if I press Alt+F4 i get a "storm login:" prompt where I can login as
> root, but when I try to run scripts or executables it says permission
> denied...
>
> any suggestions?
> please email me @ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Subject: Re: Please help me
Date: 12 Apr 2000 19:06:29 EDT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[posted and mailed]
On Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:44:55 +1000, John P
<<%76J4.12$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> shouted forth into the ether:
> I installed Redhat 5.2 on my pentuim 200. It will not boot from the
>HDD, I can on;ly use a boot disk. It is a single OS machine. When I try to
>boot from the HDD reports "no [ACTIVE PARTITION] found insert system disk
>and press enter" I use the boot disk and it boots into LILO fine. LILO is
>installed in the MBR. Please rspond by e-mail as it is easier to read.
Please learn something about online ettiquette. You just said, "I don't
have time to read this group, but please use your time to help me."
*WHAP!* *WHAP!* *WHAP!*
Are you sure that LILO is installed in the MBR? That's the error message
you'd get if the MS-DOS boot sector was left in the MBR and no primary
partition was marked active in the partition table. The relevant line in
lilo.conf would be:
boot=/dev/hdX
where X={a,b,c,d} depending on where your disk lives. Make sure that's
the case and re-run LILO.
If for some reason that doesn't work, use fdisk to set your / or /boot
partition to "active". That's the "a" command within fdisk. Then change
the "boot=" line to read "boot=/dev/hdXY" where X is the letter and Y the
number of your / or /boot partition (whichever you set active) and re-run
LILO.
Make sure the partition where your kernel images and LILO's loading map
are kept ends below cylinder 1024 as well.
--
Matt G / Dances With Crows \###| Programmers are playwrights
There is no Darkness in Eternity \##| Computers are lousy actors
But only Light too dim for us to see \#| Lusers are vicious drama critics
(Unless, of course, you're working with NT)\| BOFHen burn down theatres.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
