Hi, > Frankly if someone annoys me i generally tell them, whether at the > office, at a conference, on a mailing list, at the pub, wherever. If > they annoy me *enough* I might be reduced to telling them so rudely (ie > flame them). I try not to, it doesn't make for good relationships, but > then again I might not want an ongoing relationship with someone who i > regard as a total plonker. Exactly. You are totally correct. - We all do the same. We tell them at the office, pub, conference etc. But, we tell them privately.
> In short I will call an idiot an idiot if they are patently, repeatedly > and annoyingly an idiot. i frequently tell clients who fail to take my > advice and come unstuck that they are silly. Certainly. It is a nice feeling, being able to tell someone, "look at the facts.... Yes, I think that was a silly thing for you to do". How do you tell them that ? Privately, in the office. You do not shout it out, so the secretaries and everyone else can hear. Conclusion::: public flaming on an email list is unacceptable. Derek. ============================================================================== On Mon, 13 Dec 2004, Nick Rout wrote: > > On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:27:00 +1300 (NZDT) > Derek Smithies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Nick, > > > I dispute that, I think people get flamed (on this list anyway) when > > > they are rude or behave inappropriately. We get many newbie questions > > > and as long as they make a reasonable effort to be polite and to modify > > > their behaviour when people point out how things could be done better, > > > they usually have little problems. > > > > On this list, people don't get flamed. Yes, we do have flaming exceptions. > > However, from reading my initial email on this topic, and examining ones > > behaviour with a)company paper, b)at a conference, c)at a fix up night, it > > should be obvious that it is never never never acceptable to flame. Maybe > > you can explain why it is acceptable to flame the irritating person. > > I can only speak for myself and everyone is different, so these are my > own thoughts, and not a rule for general societal behaviour. > > Frankly if someone annoys me i generally tell them, whether at the > office, at a conference, on a mailing list, at the pub, wherever. If > they annoy me *enough* I might be reduced to telling them so rudely (ie > flame them). I try not to, it doesn't make for good relationships, but > then again I might not want an ongoing relationship with someone who i > regard as a total plonker. > > generally though people have to provoke me pretty determinedly in order > for me to flame them, either in person or online. I like to give people > the benefit of the doubt and, in the online context, to show them that > there is a right way and a wrong way [1] to deal with technical problems. > > Part way through typing this I see derek's latest post with the > mechanic's analogy. to take the analogy further, if you fail to take the > mechanic's advise, then its rude to come back and ask the same question > over and over again, and to accuse the mechanic of being part of a > conspiracy to convert everyone back to horses and carts, and to abuse > the mechanic because the car is now inoperable as a result of you > fiddling with it yourself. > > In short I will call an idiot an idiot if they are patently, repeatedly > and annoyingly an idiot. i frequently tell clients who fail to take my > advice and come unstuck that they are silly. > > Of course for me and the mechanic, the clients who do not take advice > are a great source of further work, because someone has to undo the > customer's idiocy :-) There is therefore a lower annoyance factor. On a > free mailing list you don't get any benefit from an obvious and repeated > idiot, and therefore the annoyance factor is higher. > > In short, and as a secondary summary, rudeness/flaming is probably never > appropriate, but we do not live in an ideal world, so patience can and > sometimes does wear thin. > > [1] perhaps a "right' spectrum of behaviour and a "wrong" spectrum of > behaviour, where the spectra intermingle in the middle, ie there is a > grey area in the middle where the behaviour is acceptable to some and > not to others. I'm not at the point where i regard myself as some final > arbiter of taste. > > PS i am not sure if which group we are putting top posters in today :-) > > (please note the smiley in that last sentence!) > > > > -- Derek Smithies Ph.D. This PC runs pine on linux for email IndraNet Technologies Ltd. If you find a virus apparently from me, it has Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] forged the e-mail headers on someone else's machine ph +64 3 365 6485 Please do not notify me when (apparently) receiving a Web: http://www.indranet-technologies.com/ windows virus from me......
