I hear you brother. Me and wifey went to the El Cajon Performing Arts Center (San Diego) to watch the Nutcracker in 1988 or so. A rather "rotund" primadonna ran and jumped in the air and landed in the arms of the lead dancer with a thud. We were sitting on the front row and I felt the air exhaled out of the lead dancer's lungs, the poor guy looked like he was going to get squashed like a bug, but he took the full blast no problems. Wifey says balet dancers are a tough group and I believe her too. Who could I give as a good example to describe "delicate weenies" or "girlymen" ? Cheers Kris Ahmet
> Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 01:45:44 -0400 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] AGM battery question (Eric the Nice) > > > I've played poker with professional ballet dancers; those boys don't go > to their rooms and cry either. :) > > Cheers, > Kris > > On Tue, May 03, 2011 at 08:29:01PM -0400, ahmet erkan wrote: > > > > No need for an apology Eric, > > We are not sensitive little balerinas, we are sailors. > > We don't go to our rooms and cry, we face the issues and solve them and > > move on. > > Cheers bud. > > Ahmet > > > > By the way here is the status of our project : > > The following materials are selected and on order. > > IC's LT1247, LM339 > > Inductors > > FETs > > Diodes > > Terminal blocks > > A die cast aluminum box, black, watertight, 6.73" X 4.76" X 2.01" > > I drafted a partial schematic and simulated the basic DC/DC. > > Items in schedule are : > > Breadboard testing for high risk items. (ie: Inductor temperature rise etc.) > > Board design. > > First article build. > > First article testing = Design verification testing (DVT) > > First deliverable unit build. > > Production test > > Shipment to first customer. > > > > Lot of damn work, I don't have time to get upset at anybody anyway. > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 10:06:24 -0700 > > > Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] AGM battery question (Eric the nasty) > > > > > > Ahmet , > > > I certainly do apologize! I missed THAT statement entirely. > > > I can clearly see how that approach would get one half the house bank up > > > to > > > a full charge. > > > Then one would set the system up to do the other half on the next charge > > > cycle. > > > I can see how that might reduce the damage to an AGM battery system. > > > Once again I apologize for not seeing your statement "charging one half > > > of > > > the house bank from the other half with an > > > efficient power converter" . > > > > > > > > > Eric Thompson > > > Sunnyvale, California > > > [email protected] > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "ahmet erkan" <[email protected]> > > > To: <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 4:29 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] AGM battery question (Eric the nasty) > > > > > > > > > > > > The solution: > > > > I don't have a clue. Apparently a secret as I have asked twice and > > > > received > > > > no information except some dimensions (without units, just useless > > > > numbers) > > > > and operating procedures. No technical details at all. > > > > > > > > I would guess he wants to make money and is convinced the details would > > > > allow us all to build our own units. > > > > > > Eric, > > > I have explained the theory in one e-mail responding to your message and > > > also the e-mail below responding to Norm. > > > What part of "charging one half of the housebank from the other half with > > > an > > > efficient power converter" don't you understand? > > > If you want me to explain how to design the converter, I will have to > > > write > > > a book for you. I am trying to solve a problem for myself and decided to > > > share it with the group. There is no product right know but you wanted > > > to know what size it is, so I estimated it for you, you are not happy. > > > There is going to be about 100 parts and two PCB's so I estimated the > > > price > > > at $300 and you are not happy. > > > And I thought it was difficult to make women happy, but you have > > > proven that theory wrong my friend. > > > I had plans to retire early and start sailing. Mr. Obama made this dream > > > tough for me. So I am trying to provide a service to cruisers by jointly > > > developing a product while I stil have to go to work to earn a living. > > > I am trying to share the expenses of the development as well as the > > > performance specifications with the group. Nothing is patented but anybody > > > who wants to market this product can patent iot either because all the > > > details are disclosed here. Do you want us to build it for $200 and buy > > > it > > > at > > > a fair $300 or do you want West Marine to build it at high volume for $100 > > > and sell it to you for $600? > > > Please stop making nasty remarks and wasting time that we could be > > > spending > > > on development. And thank you I am late for work again and accomplished > > > nothing towards the development. > > > To answer Neals question, yes the thing will have two adjustments for > > > float voltage and two more adjustments for Equilize. You can adjust it > > > for > > > any > > > type of battery or any situation where the half banks have different > > > types > > > of > > > batteries. > > > I hope to have more productive discussions about this project if the group > > > is interested about this subject as Norm said. > > > Thanks > > > Ahmet > > > > > > By the way, the units on estimated dimensions that I forgot and Eric > > > pointed > > > out most sarcastically is inches > > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 22:19:30 -0700 > > > > Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] AGM battery question ($300 Question) > > > > > > > > Neal, > > > > The problem: > > > > If one is using the main propulsion engine for battery charging only (at > > > > anchor for days or weeks, no solar or not enough, no wind power or not > > > > enough) then the engine is being abused ( too lightly loaded, leading to > > > > damage ) and burning fuel at a very inefficient rate once the charge > > > > cycle > > > > gets past the bulk phase. > > > > > > > > Oh yeah. The other end of the problem is that batteries, especially AGM > > > > batteries need to be FULLY recharged every time a charge cycle is > > > > started. > > > > > > > > The solution: > > > > I don't have a clue. Apparently a secret as I have asked twice and > > > > received > > > > no information except some dimensions (without units, just useless > > > > numbers) > > > > and operating procedures. No technical details at all. > > > > > > > > I would guess he wants to make money and is convinced the details would > > > > allow us all to build our own units. > > > > > > > > > > > > Eric Thompson > > > > Sunnyvale, California > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Sea Quell crew." <[email protected]> > > > > To: <[email protected]> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:31 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] AGM battery question ($300 Question) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is interesting but baffling. I must have missed some details, or > > > > > it's just over my head. > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps someone can restate the problem and how this device solves the > > > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > -Neal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ahmet erkan wrote: > > > > >> Hi Norm, > > > > >> If what you say is true, I must be real lousy at reading what people > > > > >> feel. > > > > >> I thought the general feeling in the group other than a couple of > > > > >> guys > > > > >> was : > > > > >> "we don't have a problem charging our batteries why don't this Jerk > > > > >> just > > > > >> shut up" > > > > >> OK this box is about 4 X 3 X 6 and has a terminal block with > > > > >> seven connections. > > > > >> Five leads go to the "dual battery switch" and two leads are ground. > > > > >> The house bank is wired with a conventional dual battery switch and > > > > >> typically each > > > > >> bank consists of 300A/H lead acid flooded cell deep discharge > > > > >> batteries. > > > > >> The user keeps the battery switch at the "both" setting while running > > > > >> the engine > > > > >> and bulk charging the batteries at maximum alternator output. After > > > > >> the > > > > >> battery > > > > >> reaches the bulk charge terminal voltage and the regulator prevents > > > > >> the > > > > >> battery > > > > >> voltage from increasing any further, and the alternator output > > > > >> current > > > > >> begins to > > > > >> reduce, the engine can be shut down. As long as the battery switch > > > > >> is > > > > >> in > > > > >> the "both" > > > > >> position nothing happens. When the user flips the battery switch to > > > > >> #1 > > > > >> or #2 position > > > > >> the equlizer senses the condition and the bank that is open circuited > > > > >> begins to get > > > > >> charged at less than 0.02C (C=A/H rating) > > > > >> When the open circuited bank reaches the float voltage and the float > > > > >> current > > > > >> reduces to the fully charged level the equilizer illuminates a green > > > > >> LED. > > > > >> The user switches the battery switch to "both" position and > > > > >> continues > > > > >> to > > > > >> use the > > > > >> energy stored in his batteries until the next bulk charge becomes > > > > >> necessary. > > > > >> Captain Lew Hodgett recommended 600 to 900A/H bank as a minimum, so > > > > >> lets > > > > >> say > > > > >> half the bank is 450A/H. A useful piece of information from the list > > > > >> would be the > > > > >> charge current to maintain this bank at lets say +15% float voltage > > > > >> level at lets say > > > > >> 30C temperature. Maybe 500mA? Anyway, let's see if anyone from the > > > > >> list is willing > > > > >> to take a measurement from their battery bank and help us design this > > > > >> beast. > > > > >> More later > > > > >> Good night > > > > >> Ahmet > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >> From: [email protected] > > > > >> To: [email protected] > > > > >> Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:56:10 -0400 > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] AGM battery question ($300 Question) > > > > >> > > > > >> Ahmet, > > > > >> > > > > >> I think many of us are interested in this device/technique and were > > > > >> just > > > > >> waiting to read about it from you on the List > > > > >> > > > > >> Norm > > > > >> S/V Bandersnatch > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Since you and I are evidently the only persons interested, I will > > > > >> write > > > > >> to you privately. > > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ Liveaboard mailing > > > > >> list > > > > >> [email protected] To adjust your membership settings > > > > >> over > > > > >> the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To > > > > >> subscribe send an email to [email protected] To > > > > >> unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > >> The > > > > >> archives are at > > > > >> http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > > > >> To > > > > >> search the archives > > > > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] The Mailman > > > > >> Users Guide can be found here > > > > >> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Liveaboard mailing list > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > >> To adjust your membership settings over the web > > > > >> http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > > > > >> To subscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > >> > > > > >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > >> The archives are at > > > > >> http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > > > >> > > > > >> To search the archives > > > > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > >> > > > > >> The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > > > > >> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >> > > > > >> No virus found in this message. > > > > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> > > > > >> Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3611 - Release Date: > > > > >> 05/02/11 > > > > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Liveaboard mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > To adjust your membership settings over the web > > > > > http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > > > > > To subscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > > The archives are at > > > > > http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > > > > > > > > > To search the archives > > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > > > > > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Liveaboard mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > To adjust your membership settings over the web > > > > http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > > > > To subscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > The archives are at > > > > http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > > > > > > > To search the archives > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > > > > The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > > > > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Liveaboard mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > To adjust your membership settings over the web > > > > http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > > > > To subscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > The archives are at > > > > http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > > > > > > > To search the archives > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > > > > The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > > > > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Liveaboard mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > To adjust your membership settings over the web > > > http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > > > To subscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > > > > > To search the archives > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > > The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > > > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Liveaboard mailing list > > [email protected] > > To adjust your membership settings over the web > > http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > > To subscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > > > To search the archives > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > -- > Kris Coward http://unripe.melon.org/ > GPG Fingerprint: 2BF3 957D 310A FEEC 4733 830E 21A4 05C7 1FEB 12B3 > _______________________________________________ > Liveaboard mailing list > [email protected] > To adjust your membership settings over the web > http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > To subscribe send an email to [email protected] > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > To search the archives > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
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