I've played poker with professional ballet dancers; those boys don't go to their rooms and cry either. :)
Cheers, Kris On Tue, May 03, 2011 at 08:29:01PM -0400, ahmet erkan wrote: > > No need for an apology Eric, > We are not sensitive little balerinas, we are sailors. > We don't go to our rooms and cry, we face the issues and solve them and move > on. > Cheers bud. > Ahmet > > By the way here is the status of our project : > The following materials are selected and on order. > IC's LT1247, LM339 > Inductors > FETs > Diodes > Terminal blocks > A die cast aluminum box, black, watertight, 6.73" X 4.76" X 2.01" > I drafted a partial schematic and simulated the basic DC/DC. > Items in schedule are : > Breadboard testing for high risk items. (ie: Inductor temperature rise etc.) > Board design. > First article build. > First article testing = Design verification testing (DVT) > First deliverable unit build. > Production test > Shipment to first customer. > > Lot of damn work, I don't have time to get upset at anybody anyway. > > > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 10:06:24 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] AGM battery question (Eric the nasty) > > > > Ahmet , > > I certainly do apologize! I missed THAT statement entirely. > > I can clearly see how that approach would get one half the house bank up to > > a full charge. > > Then one would set the system up to do the other half on the next charge > > cycle. > > I can see how that might reduce the damage to an AGM battery system. > > Once again I apologize for not seeing your statement "charging one half of > > the house bank from the other half with an > > efficient power converter" . > > > > > > Eric Thompson > > Sunnyvale, California > > [email protected] > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "ahmet erkan" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 4:29 AM > > Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] AGM battery question (Eric the nasty) > > > > > > > > The solution: > > > I don't have a clue. Apparently a secret as I have asked twice and > > > received > > > no information except some dimensions (without units, just useless > > > numbers) > > > and operating procedures. No technical details at all. > > > > > > I would guess he wants to make money and is convinced the details would > > > allow us all to build our own units. > > > > Eric, > > I have explained the theory in one e-mail responding to your message and > > also the e-mail below responding to Norm. > > What part of "charging one half of the housebank from the other half with an > > efficient power converter" don't you understand? > > If you want me to explain how to design the converter, I will have to write > > a book for you. I am trying to solve a problem for myself and decided to > > share it with the group. There is no product right know but you wanted > > to know what size it is, so I estimated it for you, you are not happy. > > There is going to be about 100 parts and two PCB's so I estimated the price > > at $300 and you are not happy. > > And I thought it was difficult to make women happy, but you have > > proven that theory wrong my friend. > > I had plans to retire early and start sailing. Mr. Obama made this dream > > tough for me. So I am trying to provide a service to cruisers by jointly > > developing a product while I stil have to go to work to earn a living. > > I am trying to share the expenses of the development as well as the > > performance specifications with the group. Nothing is patented but anybody > > who wants to market this product can patent iot either because all the > > details are disclosed here. Do you want us to build it for $200 and buy it > > at > > a fair $300 or do you want West Marine to build it at high volume for $100 > > and sell it to you for $600? > > Please stop making nasty remarks and wasting time that we could be spending > > on development. And thank you I am late for work again and accomplished > > nothing towards the development. > > To answer Neals question, yes the thing will have two adjustments for > > float voltage and two more adjustments for Equilize. You can adjust it for > > any > > type of battery or any situation where the half banks have different types > > of > > batteries. > > I hope to have more productive discussions about this project if the group > > is interested about this subject as Norm said. > > Thanks > > Ahmet > > > > By the way, the units on estimated dimensions that I forgot and Eric pointed > > out most sarcastically is inches > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 22:19:30 -0700 > > > Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] AGM battery question ($300 Question) > > > > > > Neal, > > > The problem: > > > If one is using the main propulsion engine for battery charging only (at > > > anchor for days or weeks, no solar or not enough, no wind power or not > > > enough) then the engine is being abused ( too lightly loaded, leading to > > > damage ) and burning fuel at a very inefficient rate once the charge cycle > > > gets past the bulk phase. > > > > > > Oh yeah. The other end of the problem is that batteries, especially AGM > > > batteries need to be FULLY recharged every time a charge cycle is started. > > > > > > The solution: > > > I don't have a clue. Apparently a secret as I have asked twice and > > > received > > > no information except some dimensions (without units, just useless > > > numbers) > > > and operating procedures. No technical details at all. > > > > > > I would guess he wants to make money and is convinced the details would > > > allow us all to build our own units. > > > > > > > > > Eric Thompson > > > Sunnyvale, California > > > [email protected] > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Sea Quell crew." <[email protected]> > > > To: <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:31 PM > > > Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] AGM battery question ($300 Question) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is interesting but baffling. I must have missed some details, or > > > > it's just over my head. > > > > > > > > Perhaps someone can restate the problem and how this device solves the > > > > problem? > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > -Neal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ahmet erkan wrote: > > > >> Hi Norm, > > > >> If what you say is true, I must be real lousy at reading what people > > > >> feel. > > > >> I thought the general feeling in the group other than a couple of guys > > > >> was : > > > >> "we don't have a problem charging our batteries why don't this Jerk > > > >> just > > > >> shut up" > > > >> OK this box is about 4 X 3 X 6 and has a terminal block with > > > >> seven connections. > > > >> Five leads go to the "dual battery switch" and two leads are ground. > > > >> The house bank is wired with a conventional dual battery switch and > > > >> typically each > > > >> bank consists of 300A/H lead acid flooded cell deep discharge > > > >> batteries. > > > >> The user keeps the battery switch at the "both" setting while running > > > >> the engine > > > >> and bulk charging the batteries at maximum alternator output. After the > > > >> battery > > > >> reaches the bulk charge terminal voltage and the regulator prevents the > > > >> battery > > > >> voltage from increasing any further, and the alternator output current > > > >> begins to > > > >> reduce, the engine can be shut down. As long as the battery switch is > > > >> in > > > >> the "both" > > > >> position nothing happens. When the user flips the battery switch to #1 > > > >> or #2 position > > > >> the equlizer senses the condition and the bank that is open circuited > > > >> begins to get > > > >> charged at less than 0.02C (C=A/H rating) > > > >> When the open circuited bank reaches the float voltage and the float > > > >> current > > > >> reduces to the fully charged level the equilizer illuminates a green > > > >> LED. > > > >> The user switches the battery switch to "both" position and continues > > > >> to > > > >> use the > > > >> energy stored in his batteries until the next bulk charge becomes > > > >> necessary. > > > >> Captain Lew Hodgett recommended 600 to 900A/H bank as a minimum, so > > > >> lets > > > >> say > > > >> half the bank is 450A/H. A useful piece of information from the list > > > >> would be the > > > >> charge current to maintain this bank at lets say +15% float voltage > > > >> level at lets say > > > >> 30C temperature. Maybe 500mA? Anyway, let's see if anyone from the > > > >> list is willing > > > >> to take a measurement from their battery bank and help us design this > > > >> beast. > > > >> More later > > > >> Good night > > > >> Ahmet > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >> From: [email protected] > > > >> To: [email protected] > > > >> Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 12:56:10 -0400 > > > >> Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] AGM battery question ($300 Question) > > > >> > > > >> Ahmet, > > > >> > > > >> I think many of us are interested in this device/technique and were > > > >> just > > > >> waiting to read about it from you on the List > > > >> > > > >> Norm > > > >> S/V Bandersnatch > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Since you and I are evidently the only persons interested, I will write > > > >> to you privately. > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ Liveaboard mailing list > > > >> [email protected] To adjust your membership settings over > > > >> the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To > > > >> subscribe send an email to [email protected] To > > > >> unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] The > > > >> archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > > >> To > > > >> search the archives > > > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] The Mailman > > > >> Users Guide can be found here > > > >> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Liveaboard mailing list > > > >> [email protected] > > > >> To adjust your membership settings over the web > > > >> http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > > > >> To subscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > >> > > > >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > >> The archives are at > > > >> http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > > >> > > > >> To search the archives > > > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > >> > > > >> The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > > > >> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >> > > > >> No virus found in this message. > > > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> > > > >> Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3611 - Release Date: 05/02/11 > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Liveaboard mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > To adjust your membership settings over the web > > > > http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > > > > To subscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > The archives are at > > > > http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > > > > > > > To search the archives > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > > > > The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > > > > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Liveaboard mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > To adjust your membership settings over the web > > > http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > > > To subscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > > > > > To search the archives > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > > The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > > > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Liveaboard mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > To adjust your membership settings over the web > > > http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > > > To subscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > > > > > To search the archives > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > > The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > > > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Liveaboard mailing list > > [email protected] > > To adjust your membership settings over the web > > http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > > To subscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > > > To search the archives > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Liveaboard mailing list > [email protected] > To adjust your membership settings over the web > http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard > To subscribe send an email to [email protected] > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ > > To search the archives > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > The Mailman Users Guide can be found here > http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html -- Kris Coward http://unripe.melon.org/ GPG Fingerprint: 2BF3 957D 310A FEEC 4733 830E 21A4 05C7 1FEB 12B3 _______________________________________________ Liveaboard mailing list [email protected] To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
