Hi Shraddha

The  PUA draft is detecting the BGP  NH liveliness based on the PUA
protection mechanism for immediate  control plane convergence immediately
on alternative next - next hop, analogous to FRR link and node protection
but without the complexity.

I agree the egress protection RFC 8679  mechanism using RSVP-TE Egress
protection extension RFC 8400 can provide fast  FRR link and mode
protection mechanism for global repair but at a operational cost of RSVP-TE
FRR protection schemes which may or may not be deployed by the operator.

The PUA and event notification drafts provide a simple IGP extension based
mechanism to provide the same and can be utilized in scenarios where
RSVP-TE may not be deployed or desirable.  I agree in most cases  large
aggregation domains converged  transport networks with MPLS-TP transport
core that RSVP-TE is deployed.

PUA provides next hop  liveliness detection and protection that can be
applied to SRv6 SR-TE policy as well, similar to what S-BFD SR-TE policy
liveliness, this PUA draft is providing similar via next hop liveliness in
protecting the egress PE SRv6 SR-TE policy.

Kind Regards

Gyan

On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 11:10 PM Shraddha Hegde <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Aijun,
>
>
>
> There are multiple possible solutions for the SR-Policy mid-point failure
> scenario
>
>    1. Use anycast SID as mid-points for redundancy
>    2. Mid-point failure local protection by looking up next sid (This is
>    probably the one you pointed out)
>    3. E2E S-BFD for SR-Policy  path liveness detection
>
>
>
> If you punch a hole in the summary, the other area nodes come to know
> about the mid-point failure
>
> and remove the failed node reachability. It is not clear how that is
> solving the SR-Policy liveness problem.
>
>
>
> Rgds
>
> Shraddha
>
>
>
>
>
> Juniper Business Use Only
>
> *From:* Aijun Wang <[email protected]>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 24, 2021 11:14 AM
> *To:* Shraddha Hegde <[email protected]>; 'Tony Li' <[email protected]>
> *Cc:* 'Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)' <[email protected]>; 'Gyan Mishra' <
> [email protected]>; 'Christian Hopps' <[email protected]>; 'lsr' <
> [email protected]>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <[email protected]>; 'Tony Przygienda' <
> [email protected]>
> *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] 【Responses for Comments on PUAM Draft】RE: IETF 112
> LSR Meeting Minutes
>
>
>
> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
>
>
>
> Hi, Shraddha:
>
>
>
> If the traffic is steered via the SRv6 policy, the intermediate points
> should also be protected. There are already one draft to propose the
> solution( please refer to
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-rtgwg-srv6-midpoint-protection-05
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-rtgwg-srv6-midpoint-protection-05__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!SSAVRO90Q62ieX5DTTgZBW4FKiC_YHXU9biL8pK-jEOUv7jmUHGUaHAt89kXBaSb$>
> .)  In such situation, if the intermediate points located in different
> areas, how then know the liveness of each other if ABR has the summary
> address advertised? We will not consider to configure BFD on every
> intermediate points.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards
>
>
>
> Aijun Wang
>
> China Telecom
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Shraddha
> Hegde
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 24, 2021 1:20 PM
> *To:* Tony Li <[email protected]>; Aijun Wang <[email protected]>
> *Cc:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>; Gyan Mishra <
> [email protected]>; Christian Hopps <[email protected]>; lsr <
> [email protected]>; Acee Lindem (acee) <[email protected]>; Tony Przygienda <
> [email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] 【Responses for Comments on PUAM Draft】RE: IETF 112
> LSR Meeting Minutes
>
>
>
> WG,
>
>
>
> MPLS egress protection framework RFC 8679 provides a mechanism to locally
> protect the traffic during
>
> PE failures. The concepts can be applied to SRv6 as well. This mechanism
> is much more efficient and quick because it locally provides fast protection
>
> And switchover to the other PE.
>
> If you compare this  to  the mechanisms being discussed in this thread
> where the failure information is being
>
> propagated by the egress PE to ABR and then  ABR to the ingress, the
> failover is going to be much slower.
>
> The egress protection technology does not flood any information outside of
> the domain and hence does not
>
> affect the IGP scale.
>
>
>
> This is a valid alternate solution to solve the problem at hand IMO.
>
> I would be interested to see if people have use cases where egress
> protection can’t be applied.
>
>
>
> Rgds
>
> Shraddha
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Juniper Business Use Only
>
> *From:* Lsr <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Tony Li
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 23, 2021 10:22 PM
> *To:* Aijun Wang <[email protected]>
> *Cc:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>; Gyan Mishra <
> [email protected]>; Christian Hopps <[email protected]>; lsr <
> [email protected]>; Acee Lindem (acee) <[email protected]>; Tony Przygienda <
> [email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] 【Responses for Comments on PUAM Draft】RE: IETF 112
> LSR Meeting Minutes
>
>
>
> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Aijun,
>
>
>
> I object to adding negative liveness to the LSDB because of the scale and
> because it adds scale during failures.
>
> *[WAJ] If we have no such mechanism, operator should either advertise the
> host routes across areas(which has scale problem), or lose the fast
> convergences for some overlay services(which defeat the user experiences).*
>
> *Within the real network, there is very rare chance for the massive
> failure. And even such thing happen accidently, the information about node
> liveness is countable, is there any router can’t process such information?*
>
> *The received unreachable information does not trigger the SPF
> calculation. Will they influence intensively the performance of the router?*
>
>
>
>
>
> If the scale is equal, then I would prefer to see flooding positive
> information rather than negative information.  Operationally this is key:
> if there is a failure and positive information doesn’t propagate, then it’s
> a bug that will be found in due course and the operator can react outside
> of a failure scenario.
>
>
>
> Having a scale failure on top of a topology failure is a far more painful
> scenario.
>
>
>
> The odds of a mass failure may be low. The fact of the matter is that they
> still happen. It is our job to ensure that the IGP performs well when it
> does.
>
>
>
> Increasing the size of the LSDB always affects performance. It slows
> flooding. Some nodes may not realize that SPF is not needed.  When LSP
> fragments are rearranged, inferring that SPF is not necessary is
> non-trivial. Impacting router and network performance is a given.
>
>
>
>
>
> My understanding is that N node failures would result in O(N) bytes added
> to the LSDB.  If someone has a way to compress that information to O(1), I
> (and Claude Shannon) would be interested.
>
> *[WAJ] Do you have other determined solutions except the PUB/SUB mechanism
> that does not exist in current IGP?*
>
>
>
>
>
> None of the mechanisms being discussed currently exist.
>
>
>
> I have no objections to Robert’s BGP propagation ideas if that’s workable.
>
>
>
> This is simply not the IGP’s job and the IGP is not a dump truck.
>
>
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
-- 

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *

*Email [email protected] <[email protected]>*



*M 301 502-1347*
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