RFC 8679 does not require RSVP-TE to work.

Best,
R.


On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 5:30 PM Gyan Mishra <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Hi Shraddha
>
> The  PUA draft is detecting the BGP  NH liveliness based on the PUA
> protection mechanism for immediate  control plane convergence immediately
> on alternative next - next hop, analogous to FRR link and node protection
> but without the complexity.
>
> I agree the egress protection RFC 8679  mechanism using RSVP-TE Egress
> protection extension RFC 8400 can provide fast  FRR link and mode
> protection mechanism for global repair but at a operational cost of RSVP-TE
> FRR protection schemes which may or may not be deployed by the operator.
>
> The PUA and event notification drafts provide a simple IGP extension based
> mechanism to provide the same and can be utilized in scenarios where
> RSVP-TE may not be deployed or desirable.  I agree in most cases  large
> aggregation domains converged  transport networks with MPLS-TP transport
> core that RSVP-TE is deployed.
>
> PUA provides next hop  liveliness detection and protection that can be
> applied to SRv6 SR-TE policy as well, similar to what S-BFD SR-TE policy
> liveliness, this PUA draft is providing similar via next hop liveliness in
> protecting the egress PE SRv6 SR-TE policy.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Gyan
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 11:10 PM Shraddha Hegde <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Aijun,
>>
>>
>>
>> There are multiple possible solutions for the SR-Policy mid-point failure
>> scenario
>>
>>    1. Use anycast SID as mid-points for redundancy
>>    2. Mid-point failure local protection by looking up next sid (This is
>>    probably the one you pointed out)
>>    3. E2E S-BFD for SR-Policy  path liveness detection
>>
>>
>>
>> If you punch a hole in the summary, the other area nodes come to know
>> about the mid-point failure
>>
>> and remove the failed node reachability. It is not clear how that is
>> solving the SR-Policy liveness problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rgds
>>
>> Shraddha
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Juniper Business Use Only
>>
>> *From:* Aijun Wang <[email protected]>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 24, 2021 11:14 AM
>> *To:* Shraddha Hegde <[email protected]>; 'Tony Li' <[email protected]>
>> *Cc:* 'Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)' <[email protected]>; 'Gyan Mishra' <
>> [email protected]>; 'Christian Hopps' <[email protected]>; 'lsr' <
>> [email protected]>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <[email protected]>; 'Tony Przygienda' <
>> [email protected]>
>> *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] 【Responses for Comments on PUAM Draft】RE: IETF 112
>> LSR Meeting Minutes
>>
>>
>>
>> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi, Shraddha:
>>
>>
>>
>> If the traffic is steered via the SRv6 policy, the intermediate points
>> should also be protected. There are already one draft to propose the
>> solution( please refer to
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-rtgwg-srv6-midpoint-protection-05
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-rtgwg-srv6-midpoint-protection-05__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!SSAVRO90Q62ieX5DTTgZBW4FKiC_YHXU9biL8pK-jEOUv7jmUHGUaHAt89kXBaSb$>
>> .)  In such situation, if the intermediate points located in different
>> areas, how then know the liveness of each other if ABR has the summary
>> address advertised? We will not consider to configure BFD on every
>> intermediate points.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Aijun Wang
>>
>> China Telecom
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Shraddha
>> Hegde
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 24, 2021 1:20 PM
>> *To:* Tony Li <[email protected]>; Aijun Wang <[email protected]>
>> *Cc:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>; Gyan Mishra <
>> [email protected]>; Christian Hopps <[email protected]>; lsr <
>> [email protected]>; Acee Lindem (acee) <[email protected]>; Tony Przygienda <
>> [email protected]>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] 【Responses for Comments on PUAM Draft】RE: IETF 112
>> LSR Meeting Minutes
>>
>>
>>
>> WG,
>>
>>
>>
>> MPLS egress protection framework RFC 8679 provides a mechanism to locally
>> protect the traffic during
>>
>> PE failures. The concepts can be applied to SRv6 as well. This mechanism
>> is much more efficient and quick because it locally provides fast protection
>>
>> And switchover to the other PE.
>>
>> If you compare this  to  the mechanisms being discussed in this thread
>> where the failure information is being
>>
>> propagated by the egress PE to ABR and then  ABR to the ingress, the
>> failover is going to be much slower.
>>
>> The egress protection technology does not flood any information outside
>> of the domain and hence does not
>>
>> affect the IGP scale.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a valid alternate solution to solve the problem at hand IMO.
>>
>> I would be interested to see if people have use cases where egress
>> protection can’t be applied.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rgds
>>
>> Shraddha
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Juniper Business Use Only
>>
>> *From:* Lsr <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Tony Li
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 23, 2021 10:22 PM
>> *To:* Aijun Wang <[email protected]>
>> *Cc:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[email protected]>; Gyan Mishra <
>> [email protected]>; Christian Hopps <[email protected]>; lsr <
>> [email protected]>; Acee Lindem (acee) <[email protected]>; Tony Przygienda <
>> [email protected]>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] 【Responses for Comments on PUAM Draft】RE: IETF 112
>> LSR Meeting Minutes
>>
>>
>>
>> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Aijun,
>>
>>
>>
>> I object to adding negative liveness to the LSDB because of the scale and
>> because it adds scale during failures.
>>
>> *[WAJ] If we have no such mechanism, operator should either advertise the
>> host routes across areas(which has scale problem), or lose the fast
>> convergences for some overlay services(which defeat the user experiences).*
>>
>> *Within the real network, there is very rare chance for the massive
>> failure. And even such thing happen accidently, the information about node
>> liveness is countable, is there any router can’t process such information?*
>>
>> *The received unreachable information does not trigger the SPF
>> calculation. Will they influence intensively the performance of the router?*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> If the scale is equal, then I would prefer to see flooding positive
>> information rather than negative information.  Operationally this is key:
>> if there is a failure and positive information doesn’t propagate, then it’s
>> a bug that will be found in due course and the operator can react outside
>> of a failure scenario.
>>
>>
>>
>> Having a scale failure on top of a topology failure is a far more painful
>> scenario.
>>
>>
>>
>> The odds of a mass failure may be low. The fact of the matter is that
>> they still happen. It is our job to ensure that the IGP performs well when
>> it does.
>>
>>
>>
>> Increasing the size of the LSDB always affects performance. It slows
>> flooding. Some nodes may not realize that SPF is not needed.  When LSP
>> fragments are rearranged, inferring that SPF is not necessary is
>> non-trivial. Impacting router and network performance is a given.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> My understanding is that N node failures would result in O(N) bytes added
>> to the LSDB.  If someone has a way to compress that information to O(1), I
>> (and Claude Shannon) would be interested.
>>
>> *[WAJ] Do you have other determined solutions except the PUB/SUB
>> mechanism that does not exist in current IGP?*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> None of the mechanisms being discussed currently exist.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have no objections to Robert’s BGP propagation ideas if that’s workable.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is simply not the IGP’s job and the IGP is not a dump truck.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
>
> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
> *Email [email protected] <[email protected]>*
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347*
>
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>
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