There is an interesting phenomenon (which seems to be occurring here), described once to me by a friend and character, who sold bric- a-brac on Bermondsey market:

Rumour: "There's a dirty old man coming through the stalls, acting suspicious, more than likely filched something already"

Chorus: "Oh call the police, call the police, lock the old tea leaf away!"

The police arrive and hand-cuff the suspect.

Chorus: "Oh who called the bill? Poor old chap, leave him alone, leave the poor chap alone!"

Sorry, perhaps, slightly off subject, but I hope you see the point made by my friend, who had an incredible depth of knowledge of human behaviour.
Regards
Anthony



Le 18 nov. 08 à 16:08, Eugene C. Braig IV a écrit :

Well, stated, Gary.  I agree.  Igor, in particular, seemed a very
minor irritation and a rather superficial provocateur.  Even though I
rarely agreed with his posts, they did sometimes make me
chuckle.  I'd rather delete the occasional irritant with a simple
keystroke then banish it along with my ideals.

Best,
Eugene


At 05:56 AM 11/18/2008, gary digman wrote:
    I have to say, I'm not sure I agree with this policy of banning
people from posting on the lutelist. I know that some people engage
in ad hominem arguing, name calling, insults etc., but it seems to
me one can always use the delete button to eliminate postings one
finds objectionable. I regard this as the price of freedom, and I
value freedom.
     The lutelist has become noticeably less dynamic and, for me,
less interesting since Danyel, Matanya, et.al have been eliminated
from the list. Some dissonance is essential to give the music life.
Too much consonance and things become watered down and static. When
Charles Ives was writing his string quartets, he reportedly wrote
little dialogues between the instruments in the margins of the
manuscript, and, in one, he had one of the violins say to the
other, "What's the matter, are you one of those white-livered
weaklings who can't stand up and face a good dissonance like a man?"
      How many people have to be offended before someone gets
banned from the list? It seems to me only two or three. I'm always
startled by posters who refer to the lutelist as "my list" or "our
list" as if this forum belonged to a select group of insiders whose
job it is to police the list and make sure it conforms to the
vision of this group of insiders. I think the list is more vibrant
and robust when it's treated as a public forum in which "a hundred
flowers bloom and a hundred thoughts contend." So I say buck up,
keep the lutelist open and free and use the delete button if
someone crosses the line.

Best to All,
Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob MacKillop"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lute List" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:57 AM
Subject: [LUTE] The Online Lute Player


  Sorry this is so long...



  The recent Igor = The Devil thread has been gnawing away at me. He
  might have been clumsy in the way he expressed himself, but he was
  entitled to his view. However, he has highlighted the topic of the
Online Lute Player, and what one might expect that to be, and that is
  what I would like to turn our attention to.



  In the days before YouTube, one would have expected a degree of
professional standard from a recording artist (setting aside personal
  preference for one artist over another). Professional reviewers
  (rightly or wrongly) saw it as part of their job to inform their
  readers of who was hot and who was not, and why they thought so.
YouTube has blown all that away. Someone who has just picked up his/her first guitar and decides to pluck it with a banana (not you, Val!), can reach an audience of thousands within days. You, the watcher- listener, have to make up your own mind whether something is 'good' or not. You can watch the video or not. I imagine Igor (and he is not alone) would
  like to see a return to a situation where one would expect a
professional standard of performance and presentation. But that just
  isn't going to happen - well, I can't see any signs of it at the
  moment.



David Taylor has raised two interesting points: 1. These videos give an
  insight into how the lute/guitar is actually played, and 2. the
  professionals are waiting until they can completely control the
production process before submitting their 'performances' for public
  scrutiny (they can already do this, of course, if they have enough
  money or their record company are willing to pay for it).



  It would be wonderful if we could hear how the average lute player
played in the 16th/17th centuries. We tend to assume that someone like Mary Burwel or Logy or some other high-profile amateur, would play well (within our present-day aesthetics). We have lute players today copying right-hand positions from paintings of amateurs who, for all we know, might have sounded terrible to their contemporaries. YT allows us to
  hear how (dare I say?) 'ordinary' people at the start of the 21st
century played. That will be of use to future researchers, I'm sure.



I consider myself as a semi-professional player. I have CD recordings and play concerts. Some years have been more busy than others, but I have never been in a position to make a living exclusively from lute playing. A few weeks ago the reality of who my audience is was brought
  home to me. I recorded the video of me playing the so-called
archguitar. I did that early in the morning. I uploaded it, and then
  left the house to play a lunchtime concert in the local church in
  Edinburgh during the Edinburgh International Festival when the
population of the city almost doubles. Bearing in mind that I have had three number one CDs in the Scottish classical charts, I might have been expected to get a decent-sized audience. There were six people. And that included my wife, daughter and the guy who opened the church doors. Three people paid - all pensioners, and therefore paid the lower rate - and two of them were blind. Why do I mention this? Well, their
  companion spent the entire time talking them through what I looked
like, what the instrument looked like, what the church looked like, etc, etc - while I was playing. The point of all this? By the time I returned home, ninety minutes after leaving the house, the video had
  over 200 plays.



Earlier this week, when I added up all my video plays from YT, Vimeo and my own web pages, I was surprised to learn I had over 16,000 plays in just a few months. How many concerts would I have to play to reach so many people? These figures are not special - many of our lute-video contributors could mention similar figures. There is no money in it, of course, but at least there is the satisfaction that someone somewhere
  is listening and hopefully enjoying the music.



The downside? Even though the concert I played that lunchtime was on the face of it a negative experience, my wife and daughter stated that
  they had never heard me play so well. Why? I think there were two
contributing factors - the acoustics were marvelous, and opened up for
  me subtleties in the music I never imagined were there - I was
experiencing the music afresh, and that inspired me. And, there is a HUGE difference between playing to an audience, no matter how small,
  and playing to a camera.



So, I for one will continue making mp3 files and videos, because I know
  there are people who get something positive out of it, and I will
continue to try to play concerts even though I live in a country which
  has no interest whatsoever in Early Music.



And I hope that my lute-playing colleagues do so too, no matter what
  their 'standard'. I am in their audience.



  Rob MacKillop

  [1]www.songoftherose.co.uk - free mp3 files and videos :-)



  PS I've just remembered...it is interesting to note the difference
between my acoustic guitar audience and my Early Music audience: I have
  a 'donations' button on various pages. The Acoustic guitar pages
  (Scottish/Celtic stuff - some of it arrangements of Scottish lute
pieces) has had enough hits to allow me to purchase an instrument. The Song of the Rose site - lute and baroque guitar - has raised only six pounds. Enough to buy two first strings. Don't worry, this is not a
  criticism, just a humorous observation :-)















  --

References

  1. http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/


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