Gary, --- On Fri, 5/6/11, Gary Digman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Date: Friday, May 6, 2011, 7:22 AM > "...gratuitous dissonance..."? > > Gary > To give an example of gratuitous dissonance on baroque lute: if you play the open first course and the second fret at the same time, you have a jarring minor second dissonance. This type of thing is never found in baroque lute music, especially not at cadences. It is never found in pieces by the French lute composers. Nor the gallant lutenists. And especially not in the works of Weiss. Never. ;-) (It happens all the time, both resolved and un-resolved.) What I think Roman really is talking about is unresolved strong dissonance (such as frequent minor seconds and tritones) as a normal language, often for the sake of obfuscating otherwise fairly simple harmonic procedures or to avoid a sense of tonal center. In this view, harmonic tension, unlike its use in previous eras, is not employed for dramatic or narrative effect, but rather as a continuously operative state with little functionality. Some would argue that it creates a constant sense of dread and foreboding that never "goes" anywhere. For what it's worth, I don't agree with Roman. I think this language can be as effective as any other and there is no particular reason why it shouldn't be employed on lute if that's the composer's fancy and he or she can use it effectively. Of course, just as in "normal" tonality, there has been a lot of bad music written using "gratuitous dissonance." In modern circles, however, it has unfortunately become de rigueur to write this way if you want to be taken seriously as a composer who is "relevant." (i.e. getting performances and being awarded grants, scholarships, faculty positions, etc.) Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roman Turovsky" <[email protected]> > To: "Ron Andrico" <[email protected]>; > <[email protected]>; > <[email protected]> > Cc: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 7:28 AM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: New blog post > > > > Ron, > > the questions are totally valid, and 98% of modern > music is in fact ugly. > > This certainly does NOT apply to Gilbert, as his music > is neither ugly nor > > modern (it is jazz-influenced, and as such has a > certainn historicist air to > > it, and it is certainly not modernist). > Jazz-influenced sonorities work well > > on lutes, as evinenced by Edin's renditions of Monk > for example, or Ivano > > Zanenghi's own compositions. > > As to purely mordernist sound - it is utterly > inappropriate for all lutes in > > general, and the baroque lute in particular, as the > acoustical properties > > of the instrument tolerate absolutely no gratuitous > dissonance and/or > > non-traditional methods of producing sound (I had many > discussions apropos > > with Hans Kockelmans, who has a lot of experience both > as a lutenist and an > > avant-garde composer). Modernism on lutes sounds > half-ass at best, and daft > > at worst. > > Only one modernist idiom has some real potential on > lutes, and that is > > Minimalism, due to its adherence to consonance and > rhythmic interest. > > RT > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Andrico" > <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]>; > <[email protected]> > > Cc: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:05 AM > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: New blog post > > > > > >> Gilbert, Arto: > >> I don't recall having described > modern music as 'ugly' nor having > >> railed against > inventiveness. My point is just to ask the questions. > >> But I will add that the 16th > century lute was designed for and excels > >> at transparent polyphony and, > while modern chordal sounds can work, I > >> haven't see much polyphonic > writing of new music for the lute. > >> Best wishes, > >> Ron Andrico > >> > Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 > 16:26:41 +0300 > >> > To: [email protected] > >> > CC: [email protected]; > [email protected] > >> > From: [email protected] > >> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: New blog > post > >> > > >> > > >> > Yes Gilbert! > >> > > >> > And they were really very > inventive already in 17th cetury; just take > >> a > >> > look to La Comete by > Gallot: > >> > > >> > > >> http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/GallotsCometeM.pdf > >> > > >> > Arto > >> > > >> > On Thu, 5 May 2011 15:21:04 > +0200, "Gilbert Isbin" > >> > <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > > Why should a modern > voicing sound ugly on a lute. Play Dm11 for > >> instance. > >> > > >> > > Not bad. Gm13/D . > What's wrong with it ? Sounds very beautiful to > >> me. > >> > > > >> > > Why shouldn't it be > possible to integrate lute techniques in modern > >> lute > >> > > compositions? Try > C9sus4 followed by a bass line, or a single note > >> run on > >> > > >> > > the top voice, or in > the middle voice. Sounds pretty ok to me. > >> > > > >> > > I think people from the > 16th century would have a good laugh about > >> this > >> > > discussion. It was a > time in which so many creative things > >> happened. New > >> > > compositional > techniques, new lute techniques, new instruments, .. > >> > > > >> > > Gilbert. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > http://users.telenet.be/gilbert.isbin/contents.html > >> > > > >> > > ----- Original Message > ----- > >> > > From: "Ron Andrico" > <[email protected]> > >> > > To: <[email protected]> > >> > > Sent: Thursday, May 05, > 2011 2:06 PM > >> > > Subject: [LUTE] New > blog post > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >> To All: > >> > >> We have a new blog > post raising a few questions about modern music > >> on > >> > >> the lute - not > against the idea, by the way. > >> > >> [1]http://mignarda.wordpress.com > >> > >> Ron & Donna > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> > >> References > >> > >> > >> > >> 1. http://mignarda.wordpress.com/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> To get on or off > this list see list information at > >> > >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- > >> > >> Geen virus gevonden > in dit bericht. > >> > >> Gecontroleerd door > AVG - www.avg.com > >> > >> Versie: 10.0.1209 / > Virusdatabase: 1500/3616 - datum van uitgifte: > >> > >> 05/04/11 > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> -- > >> > >> > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3616 - Release > Date: 05/04/11 11:34:00 > > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
