Thank you, David, for your detailed suggestions regarding string spacing, and also for your very fine HD video of the Milan piece. As you say, ten minutes with a good teacher could resolve many technique issues for many of us. But for various reasons, many of us don't have ready access to a good teacher. Your methodical research and clear explanations will be very helpful to me, and - I'm sure - many others.
Ned On Apr 25, 2012, at 9:41 PM, David Tayler wrote: > If you follow the link and use HD plus the pause button in full screen > you can see close ups of striking two strings. > However, it is better to be shown how to do it by a real person :) > You can see in the video that one string (the "near" string) goes under > the other one, and both strings are plucked with a slight curved > stroke. Also you can see that my fingers are well below the strings. > Now I'm not saying that is the right way to do it, and, indeed, I use > four or five hand positions, thumb over, thumb centre, etc, etc. > Each has its own challenges, > It is just one way to do it. > And, really, I could not do it without the right spacing. It would be > nearly impossible. > So for me, what makes a good lute: setup. I can play an average or > even below average lute and get a pretty good sound with the right > spacing. > I this case, I use "thumb in: egg" The other variant is "thumb in: > squid" where the fingers are more extended. > That is, the thumb is inside the hand, mostly, and the hand is shaped > as if it could hold an egg. > In fact, I could lay one! > Most importantly, the wrist is very loose. The wrist is a biggie as far > as tone goes. > The video was made with a follow focus tracking so you can see > everything mostly in focus. > [1]http://youtu.be/soTjO9WlsAs?hd=1&t=2m16s > __________________________________________________________________ > > From: William Samson <[email protected]> > To: David Tayler <[email protected]> > Cc: Lute List <[email protected]> > Sent: Wed, April 25, 2012 11:32:00 AM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute? > I haven't come across that formula David. Can you please point me to > a > source for the recipe? It could save a lot of time and money! > Thanks, > Bill > From: David Tayler <[2][email protected]> > To: William Samson <[3][email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, 25 April 2012, 18:57 > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute? > Simple geometry. > It's all been worked out, unlike forty years ago when we worked it > out. > No different from buying clothes. > dt > At 11:55 PM 4/9/2012, you wrote: > A luthier would need a formula relating hand dimensions (hand span, > fistmele and so on) in order to build a lute that's exactly the > right size for a particular player. Without such a formula, all > the > luthier gets is a headache when asked to build a lute that's the > right size for a particular player. > If it's down to the player to decide what spacings they need, how > will they determine that without having a selection of instruments > to try first? Not as easy as in the time of Laux Maler as David > Van > Edwards so amusingly pointed out! > I don't see how making exact copies of original instruments > actually > helps here - There are variations in these too - Compare, for > example the well-known 7c Hieber with the 7c Venere of about the > same size (58/59cm?). The Hieber has a wide string spacing at the > nut end, and the Venere is almost impossibly narrow here for most > players I know. Otherwise, there's not a lot of difference in > dimensions - bridge spacing, scale, body dimensions . . . > I sympathise with your point of view, but can't see how these > objectives can be achieved in practice without buying, trying and > then rejecting a goodish number of instruments. > Bill > From: David Tayler <[4][email protected]> > To: lute <[5][email protected]> > Sent: Monday, 9 April 2012, 22:27 > Subject: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute? > Ninety percent of the lutes I see are set up wrong and are also > the > wrong size for the person playing. I doubt that this will change > anytime soon: once someone buys the wrong size instrument, they > either > keep it or trade it in for another one that is the wrong size. > So I would rate size and setup as the number one issue, based on > my > experience that the player will have to go through a very long > retraining period > after learning on a lute that is the wrong size. Why pedal > backwards? > Of the setup issues, the number one issue is the span and > spacing. > Without the right span and spacing, which reconciles two numbers, > the > size of the hand (and fingers) and the rules which govern the > span > and > spacing of strings. Without these two numbers in balance, it is > impossible, or very difficult to make a good sound. > When these numbers are in balance, it is easy to make a good > sound; in > fact, it is difficult to make a bad sound. No one would wear size > 4 or > size 11 shoes if they are a size 9, and yet, that is precisely > what > happens. Sadly, people are rarely fitted to the lute, even though > the > lute is from the age of "custom made". Equally sadly, most people > do > not understand the basic physics of twang, thwack and pluck, > which > involves some simple experiments with a special bridge and nut > that are > universally adjustable. Generally speaking, and I mean VERY > generally, > the plucking-point spacing is wrong, that is, the place where you > actually pluck the string, and it is almost always too narrow. > However, > it is the ratio of the bridge to nut, factoring the string > length, > and > figured at YOUR plucking point that gives numbers for the "thou > shalt > not buzz" dimensions. Empirically, anyone can see that the > spacing > is > different at any point on the string. > A player with years of experience can give you some advice, after > watching you play, about the setup. You may have to compromise > somewhat > on the overall span, or use a sliding scale so that the treble > has > more > room. > After these two biggies, there is a seemingly endless list of > features, > all of which are important. And here you will need some > experience > to > guide you. > However, I would add that most lutes made nowadays are not copies > of > originals. They are rescaled, resized, rebarred, rebridged, > reglued, > revarnished. > Available is everything: everything-except-original. > Now, you may want that. Personally, I think everyone needs a > reality > check instrument that is a copy of an original. Otherwise, it is > just a > guitar, basically, with wonky pegs. > Since you asked about sound in your list, it is no fun playing a > monochromatic instrument of any kind, but that is just a personal > preference. I would say most lutes made today lean towards > monochromatic. > Main thing is to make a good sound. If you aren't making a > beautiful > sound, it isn't you: your lute is set up wrong, is the wrong > size, > or > both. > Lute players may think that their feet are the wrong size, but > when you > think about it, this cannot be the case. Everyone is different, > and the > instrument must fit. > My teacher told me that you don't choose a lute, it chooses you. > Maybe > that is true. > dt > __________________________________________________________________ > From: William Samson <[1][6][email protected] > > To: Lute List <[2][7][email protected] > > Sent: Sat, April 7, 2012 6:25:47 AM > Subject: [LUTE] What makes a good lute? > I haven't really got much to add to the subject line. I've > been > chatting with Rob about this and various points have emerged > I'd be > interested in hearing what priorities you might put on the > various > characteristics of a lute in deciding if it's 'good' or > otherwise. > The kinds of things that have come up are (in no particular > order): > * playability (action, string spacing etc) > * sound (which I can't easily define) > * authenticity of design/construction > * materials used > * quality of craftsmanship > * reputation of maker > Of course these are rather broad headings and might easily be > refined, > clarified or broken down. > Thoughts, please? > Bill > -- > To get on or off this list see list information at > [1][3] [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- > References > 1. [4][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- > References > 1. mailto:[10][email protected] > 2. mailto:[11][email protected] > 3. [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 4. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. http://youtu.be/soTjO9WlsAs?hd=1&t=2m16s > 2. mailto:[email protected] > 3. mailto:[email protected] > 4. mailto:[email protected] > 5. mailto:[email protected] > 6. mailto:[email protected] > 7. mailto:[email protected] > 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > 10. mailto:[email protected] > 11. mailto:[email protected] > 12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html >
