We are indeed talking about two unrelated pieces. Wolfgang was not
talking about the two (or three?) Recercari "Senza Canto" in the D-Mbs
Mus. 266 -but instead one of the tone colour echo examples:
"a nice example for tone colour (echo) in higher register is:
Che debo far che me consegli amore
BSB Mus. ms. 267 No. 32"
Whereas I was referencing Tristan van Neumann's post:
"Ms. 266 has a really crazy Aquila ricercar, No 25 (f. 24v), which
starts at the lowest course and goes up to 7/h. It's also a senza canto
ricercar.
Has anyone played this beast?... "
-Which I got from "The Lute Society Music Editions - The Collected Lute
Music of Marco Dall'Aquila"; where it is piece no. 9.
-And to pile on a touch more potential confusion, Matthew Daillie then
referenced one of the other "Recercari senza canto" (a much shorter,
but very beautiful one; can be found as no. 3a or 3b in the same book)
played by Lukas Henning.
"Am 30.01.2018 um 20:10 schrieb Matthew Daillie:
In his latest Memo video, Lukas Henning plays another Marco recercar
'senza canto' and adds a few inventions of his own for a lute with
several broken strings!
[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=g-Lzgk8N-yM
Best,
Matthew "
-Hope we are sorted out now. I'm also finding more "tone color echo"
bits all over the place in Marco's works, and some more as well in Gorzanis.
You guys got me playing more early Renaissance music than I intended
today; I WAS in the midst of a non-stop Baroque lute Weiss & Bach binge,
and you've all ruined that! :-D
Dan
On 1/30/2018 12:53 PM, Rainer wrote:
Dear Dan,
You and Wolfgang seem to be talking about two different pieces.
Ms 267, No. 32 (page 50) does not fit your description.
Rainer
On 30.01.2018 19:56, Dan Winheld wrote:
SO glad to hear that someone else has discovered this wonderful
bizarre masterpiece by Marco... I have been studying and practicing
it for about a year, almost memorized. It is the ultimate
"Recercar/fantasia senza il canto" ever written; surpassing all other
pieces of this tiny subgenre; generated of course by the unfortunate
frequency of chantarelle disintegration- usually mid-performance,
esp. in the pre-nylon string days.
I highly recommend it; especially as a study piece. It's probably a
lousy recital/concert piece unless you are playing for a small group
of lute nerds. And, most importantly; if you try to play it on a lute
with unison basses it will sound like crap. Really! A high quality 6
(or 7) course, and the 8ves MUST include courses 4 and 5 as well as
the other basses- and this piece really pops! Actual gut helps too,
we want crisp enunciation of the notes as you fret up to 7 & 8 frets
on the bass courses.
The only other piece of music in any category that I have heard that
starts on the lowest bass notes and stays there for so long is
Gorecki's Symphony #3 "Sorrowful Songs" -utterly different mood,
though. Marco's is very upbeat, almost humorous.
Giacomo Gorzanis is another lute composer/player who repeated phrases
changing only courses and positions for tone color reasons.
Dan
On 1/30/2018 8:27 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
Ms. 266 has a really crazy Aquila ricercar, No 25 (f. 24v), which
starts at the lowest course and goes up to 7/h. It's also a senza
canto ricercar.
Has anyone played this beast?...
Am 30.01.2018 um 16:46 schrieb Wolfgang Wiehe:
a nice example for tone colour (echo) in higher register is:
Che debo far che me consegli amore
BSB Mus. ms. 267 No. 32
(Marco dall Aquila?)
greetings
Wolfgang
http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00032067/images/index.h
tml?id=00032067&seite=79&fip=193.174.98.30&nativeno=%2F&groesser=150%25
p.s. I made a transcription in french Tab some years ago, if
some one
is interested
Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Januar 2018 um 15:46 Uhr
Von: "Joachim Lüdtke" <[email protected]>
An: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
Nor do I, but Brown records two later editions. It may be
interesting
(at least for someone who is fascinated by the music and the
history of
its editions) to compare the texts. Years ago I copied the
piece from
the CNRS edition, which should be based on the earliest known
publication, that is on 1554[6]. If I wasn't out of my mind while
copying the music, there are several measures where you would
have to
pick the final note in cadences from the octave string of the
third
course. Later I saw the piece in one of the later prints, and
all this
fine play with octave strings and resulting sonorities, which
to me
seemed so perfectly matched the way De Rippe intavolated the
echos of
the chanson, was edited out ... I have however never
investigated much
time into this, and it may even be that the piece is full of
errors in
1554[6] or the copy the CNRS editors where working from, and
that all
ideas of mine about fine play, octave strings and sonorities are
nonsense ...
Best
Joachim
Lektorat & Korrektorat
Dr. Joachim Lüdtke
Blumenstraße 20
D-90762 Fürth
Tel.: 0911 / 976 45 20
Mail: [email protected]
Mitglied im Verband der freien Lektorinnen und Lektoren
[1]www.vfll.de
[2]www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
Datum: 2018-01-30T14:00:09+0100
Von: "Rainer" <[email protected]>
An: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Looks like I don't have that book (Brown 1554[6]) -
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Rainer
On 30.01.2018 11:58, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:
> Dear Rainer,
>
> De Rippe's intavolation of Gentian's "Dieu qui conduit"
("L'Eccho").
>
> Best
>
> Joachim
>
>
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
> Betreff: [LUTE] tone colour echo
> Datum: 2018-01-30T11:45:30+0100
> Von: "Rainer" <[email protected]>
> An: "Lute net" <[email protected]>
>
> Dear lute netters,
>
> I may have posted this may years ago already - I don't remember.
>
> In the duet treble "Sellinger's Round" (Marsh, p. 182 and
Dd.3.18, f.
5r) there is a tone colour echo in bars 57 and 58 - the same
notes on
different courses.
>
> I wonder if anybody knows of any other such echo in
Renaissance lute
music.
>
> By the way, it is tempting to play a similar echo on bars 53
and 54.
>
> Rainer
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>
>
References
1. http://www.vfll.de/
2. http://www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke
3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
