I actually found some legal size sheets by Doug Towne of lots of trios
for lute violin and bass. the Kropfgans cm violin part is very nice
compared to something I found on line as well, which is as you say
riddled with errors. If you are interested I could share them with
you. r
__________________________________________________________________
From: Christopher Wilke <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:34:29 AM
To: Richard Brook; Markus Lutz
Cc: Roland Hayes; Lutelist
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Johann Kropfgans
Iâve found Kropfgansâs chamber music to be of much higher quality than
his solo lute music. The chamber works are not exactly C.P.E. Bach or
Haydn, but they have moments of beauty and passion that make for
interesting listening beyond whatever appeal they have for our group
simply by virtue of having a lute in them. Kropfgans, by the way, was
the lutenist who went with Weiss when he visited J.S. Bach and âextra
special music was heardâ. We automatically tend to assume that was
because of the interaction between Bach and Weiss, but maybe Kropfgans
was more than a slack-jawed yokel at that happening.
Iâve played a few of these from a modern edition found online. I canât
recall where I downloaded it, but I wouldnât recommend it anyway
because the music was riddled with tons of errors. It took a lot of our
rehearsal time finding and correcting them. When youâve convinced some
bowed string players to indulge your desire to explore an obscure lute
composerâs music, thatâs especially bad; they could easily be sawing
away on any number of the Big Name Masterworks, which is no doubt more
rewarding for them than playing sempre sotto voce with a lute.
John Schneiderman and company have recorded an album of Kropfgans
trios. The recorded balance regarding the lute is very good.
Chris
[1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Wednesday, May 16, 2018, 10:09 AM, Richard Brook
<[email protected]> wrote:
Can one get sheet music for the trios?
Dick Brook
> On May 16, 2018, at 6:04 AM, Markus Lutz <[2][email protected]> wrote:
>
> Dear Roland,
> probably you missed the mail of Stephan Olbertz, who posted to the
lute list only:
>
> "Think of the galant lute trio like a piano trio... You get the idea"
>
> That really is the point:
> In that times lute trio meant lute, violin (or flute) and basso, very
often in a way, that the two added instruments play the melody and the
bass of the lute part, but in later times
> - and that for sure is the case with Kropfgans - with different
voices for violin and lute, and also the bass often plays a extended
line (sometimes even another voice: Philipp Martin(o), Daube etc.)
>
> I don't think we have testimonies of a trio of 3 lutes at that time,
though such music probably existed (e.g. v. Radolt used 3 differently
tuned lutes in one of his ensemble works)!
>
> The works of Kropfgans are mentioned in Gerber 1st edition 1792, vol.
1, 759f:
> Kropfgans (Johann) geb. 14.10.1708 - nach 1769:
> "Von seinen Kompositionen sind nur 3 Lautensolos zu Nürnberg
gestochen worden. In Mspt. hingegen hat man von ihm 36 Solos, 6 Duos
für 2 Lauten, 32 Trios für Laute, Violin und Violonzell, 1 Quartett für
Laute, Fr. Viol. und Violonz. Auch hat er einige Hillerische Operetten
auf die Laute gesetzt."
>
> i.e.
> - 3 Solos had been published in Nürnberg by Haffner
> In manuscript we have:
> - 36 Solos
> - 6 Duos
> - 32 Trios for lute, violin and cello
> - 1 Quartett for lute, flute, violine and cello
> - Operetts by Hiller set to the lute
>
> Best regards
> Markus
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 16.05.2018 um 03:03 schrieb Roland Hayes:
>> Apologies. I meant trio for lute violin and cello. r
>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>> *From:* [3][email protected] <[4][email protected]>
on behalf of Markus Lutz <[5][email protected]>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:11:22 PM
>> *To:* [6][email protected]; Roland Hayes
>> *Subject:* [LUTE] Re: Johann Kropfgans
>> In one of the lexika of the end of the 18th or beginning of the 19th
>> century there is a remark, that Johann Kropfgans wrote 32 lute
trios,
>> but I cannot say at the moment, in which one it is written.
>> We only have some complete trios in Brusseles and in Berlin.
>> In Brusseles there probably are some even written by himself.
>> Best regards
>> Markus
>> Am 15.05.2018 um 23:43 schrieb Arthur Ness:
>>> Hi Stephen,
>>> You got it ! ! !
>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>> 12 Trios lute, violin âcello in B-Br Ms II 4088. Also the
Pichler
>>> piece in Ms II 4087 (viii) according to Tim Crawford.
>>> Meyer, Christian. "Les Manuscrits De Luth Du Fonds Fétis
(Bruxelles,
>>> Bibliothèque Royale Albert Ier, Mss II [7]4086-4089)." Revue
Belge De
>>> Musicologie / Belgisch Tijdschrift Voor Muziekwetenschap, vol.
50,
>>> 1996, pp. 197â216. JSTOR, JSTOR,
[1]www.jstor.org/stable/3687046.
>>> Also listed with complete titles in Boetticher's RISM VII
inventory,
>>> pp. 62-4. These were from the Fétis collection and may have
been
>>> acquired from the Breitkopf auction of 1832 (can't find my
notes). The
>>> catalogue is extremely rare, but is about 1 ½ inches thick.***
>>> Breitkopf decided to empty their warehouse of outmoded music.
What a
>>> treasure!! Unique copies of some of the Bach lute pieces were
among
>>> the offering.
>>> Stephan Olbertz, "An Unknown Lute Piece in a Keyboard
Manuscript with
>>> Works by Wilhelm Friedemann Bach," JLSA 44 (2012): 1-22.
>>> ***Copy in the University Library, Amsterdam (NO Longer in the
>>> Amsterdam public library).
>>> Enjoy, Roland!
>>> Arthur Ness
>>> [8][email protected]
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Stephan Olbertz <[9][email protected]>
>>> To: 'Lute Net' <[10][email protected]>
>>> Sent: Tue, May 15, 2018 4:24 pm
>>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Johann Kropfgans
>>> Think of the galant lute trio like a piano trio... You get the
idea ;-)
>>> Best
>>> Stephan
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: lute-[2][11][email protected]
[[3]mailto:[12][email protected]]
>>> Im Auftrag von Stewart McCoy
>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Mai 2018 21:05
>>> An: Lute Net
>>> Betreff: [LUTE] Johann Kropfgans
>>> Dear Roland,
>>> Iââ¬â¢m afraid I donââ¬â¢t know about these trios by
Johann
>>> Kropfgans, but I
>>> would very much like to know more about them. I see from a
quick search
>>> on the internet that Kropfgans wrote chamber music for the
lute, violin
>>> and cello, including one in C minor, but I see no evidence of
lute
>>> trios. It is possible that Lutz Kirchhof made his own lute
trio
>>> arrangements from those chamber music pieces, but Iââ¬â¢m
only
>>> guessing.
>>> Hopefully youââ¬â¢ll be able to find out more.
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Stewart.
>>> From: [1]Roland Hayes
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:10 PM
>>> To: [2]Wayne ; [3]Stewart McCoy
>>> Cc: [4]lute net
>>> Subject: Johann Kropfgans
>>> He wrote 32 lute trios? What are the sources? I just heard one
in c
>>> minor w/ Lutz Kerchoff. Outstanding!! r
>>> --
>>> References
>>> 1. [4]mailto:[13][email protected]
>>> 2. [5]mailto:[14][email protected]
>>> 3. [6]mailto:[15][email protected]
>>> 4. [7]mailto:[16][email protected]
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> [8][17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>> --
>>> References
>>> 1. [18]http://www.jstor.org/stable/3687046
>>> 2. mailto:[19][email protected]
>>> 3. mailto:[20][email protected]?
>>> 4. mailto:[21][email protected]?
>>> 5. mailto:[22][email protected]?
>>> 6. mailto:[23][email protected]?
>>> 7. mailto:[24][email protected]?
>>> 8. [25]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> --
>> Markus Lutz
>> SchulstraÃe 11
>> 88422 Bad Buchau
>> Tel [26]0 75 82 / 92 62 89
>> Fax [27]0 75 82 / 92 62 90
>> Mail [28][email protected]
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>
> --
>
> Markus Lutz
> SchulstraÃe 11
>
> 88422 Bad Buchau
>
> Tel [30]0 75 82 / 92 62 89
> Fax [31]0 75 82 / 92 62 90
> Mail [32][email protected]
>
>
--
References
1. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
2. mailto:[email protected]
3. mailto:[email protected]
4. mailto:[email protected]
5. mailto:[email protected]
6. mailto:[email protected]
7. tel:4086-4089
8. mailto:[email protected]
9. mailto:[email protected]
10. mailto:[email protected]
11. mailto:[email protected]
12. mailto:[email protected]
13. mailto:[email protected]
14. mailto:[email protected]
15. mailto:[email protected]
16. mailto:[email protected]
17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
18. http://www.jstor.org/stable/3687046
19. mailto:[email protected]
20. mailto:[email protected]
21. mailto:[email protected]
22. mailto:[email protected]
23. mailto:[email protected]
24. mailto:[email protected]
25. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
26. tel:0 75 82 / 92 62 89
27. tel:0 75 82 / 92 62 90
28. mailto:[email protected]
29. mailto:[email protected]
30. tel:0 75 82 / 92 62 89
31. tel:0 75 82 / 92 62 90
32. mailto:[email protected]
