I hereby propose the following theory: Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina
is a fiction; much like Santa Claus, if you will. You see, I, among a
host of thinking people deem it impossible for one man from Rome to
compose such a large oeuvre: 105 masses, 68 offertories, at least 140
madrigals, more than 300 motets, 75 hymns, 35 magnificats, 11 litanies,
and 4-5 sets of lamentations.
Instead, I propose that 'his' works were actually composed by a team of
collaborators, including, but not limited to Gesualdo, Arcadelt,
Gabrieli, des Perez, J. S. Bach, Robert Burns, and Dr. Suess. All under
the auspices of pope Julius III, his alleged employer. The elites
wanted and want you to think Palestrina composed those works, because
they have an insatiable urge to fabricate amd distribute lies to the
masses for no apparent gain or reason.
Wake up, Sheeple!
On Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 23:52 Ron Andrico <[1][email protected]>
wrote:
Truth to tell, I have absolutely no agenda to push here. I have
no
preconceived ideas about Shakespeare and nothing to promote or
defend.
In fact, as a staunch supporter of the working class who believes
the
royals and the power elite to be nothing more than a useless
irritant
and blight upon the earth, I should want to believe that William
Shakespeare rose from humble roots and proved to be a brilliant
writer. Like John Dowland, who actually rose from presumably
humble
roots to become a brilliant composer. It's just that I, like a
host of
other thinking persons, find it difficult to swallow this
particular
myth. Sort of like Santa Claus. But don't take my word for
it.
"How curious and interesting is the parallel--as far as poverty
of
biographical details is concerned--between Satan and Shakespeare.
...They are the best-known unknown persons that have ever drawn
breath
upon the planet." - Mark Twain, "Is Shakespeare Dead?"
__________________________________________________________________
From: [2][email protected] <[3][email protected]>
on behalf
of T.J. Sellari <[4][email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 5:36 PM
To: [5][email protected]
Subject: [LUTE] Re: The awful English language
I hope we might include Shakespeare scholars in the group of
"thinking"
people who have considered this question; they indeed have
made the
relevant scholarship a focus of their careers. As I'm sure
many on
this
list know already, no scholar proposes that Shakespeare wrote
every
word of the plays attributed to him. On many plays, he had
collaborators, and scholars continue to dedicate considerable
effort
to
trying to figure out the scope and nature of his
collaborations.
(See,
for example, Sir Brian Vickers' _Shakespeare, Co-Author: A
Historical
Study of Five Collaborative Plays_.) To argue that the case
for
Shakespeare as the sole author of all of his works is yet to
be
proven
misses the point entirely; nobody is trying to prove it,
because
nobody
believes it. But that is not to accept the far-fetched idea
that a
group of collaborators wrote all the works. There's only
"thinking"
behind this idea, and absolutely no evidence. It is literally
a
historical conspiracy theory. Shapiro's book explains why.
Perhaps this issue has nothing to do with lute music, but I
assume
that
members of this list are interested in historical accuracy in
any
case.
The "informed belief" that Shakespeare's works were written by
a
committee is actually very poorly informed. Since I have
learned a
great deal from this list, I thought I should contribute a
small bit
of
more reliable information when I got the chance.
Tom
On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 12:41 AM Ron Andrico
<[1][6][email protected]>
wrote:
I'm familiar with Shapiro's work. The authorship
question
indeed. It
is a question and not a given. Some like to say the
man from
Stratford
was the sole author of the tremendous output of the works
of
Shakespeare. That is a theory that has yet to be
proven, no
matter
what your scholars of English Renaissance literature like
to
propose.
A thinking person considers that tremendous output and
weighs
it
against the physical reality of the amount of time
required to
produce
all that scribbling in light of the work a player like
William
Shakespeare was required to do in order to survive.
Then a
thinking
person considers how persons of noble rank would refrain
from
publishing their work (Sidney's work was published
posthumously).
And
a thinking person observes how authors and musicians
would
participate
in a salon atmosphere under the patronage of someone like
Lucy
Countess
of Bedford.
I have had the opportunity to delve into the subject, and
the
evidence
points to work produced by more than one author that
retains a
consistent voice due to a collaborative effort with a
common
goal.
Like the collaborative effort that produced the King
James
Bible.
What does this have to do with lute music anyway?
__________________________________________________________________
From: [2][7][email protected]
<[3][8][email protected]>
on behalf
of T.J. Sellari <[4][9][email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 3:19 PM
To: [5][10][email protected]
Subject: [LUTE] Re: The awful English language
Re: Shakespeare authorship question
There are many theories that purport to cast doubt on
Shakespeare's
authorship of the plays attributed to him, but
scholars of
English
Renaisssance literature consider them largely
nonsense. I
suggest
you
take a look at _Contested Will_ by James Shapiro. A
review
of
the
book
can be found here:
[1][6][11]https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-wi
ll-w
ho-wro
te-shakespeare
On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 7:16 PM Ron Andrico
<[2][7][12][email protected]>
wrote:
Absolument, Alain. Many forget that the
English
court
was
actually
French until the upstart Henry Tudor slaughtered
his
way
to the
throne. Even then, French was spoken at court
through
much of
the 16th
century.
As for the less-than-eloquent William
Shakespeare,
it's just
plain
silly to think he actually wrote the canon
commonly
attributed
to
his
name. He was a player, a station lower than
that of
a
professional
musician. We can support various theories of
who
wrote
the
works
commonly attributed to Shakespeare, but my
informed
belief is
that they
were written by committee, just like the King
James
Bible
was a
few
years hence.
I think there is strong evidence that the plays
arose
from the
circle
surrounding Lucy Countess of Bedford, including
the
likes of
John
Donne, Ben Jonson, Edmund Spenser, Samuel Danyel.
There is
also
a
theory that the very literate Countess of
Pembroke, Sir
Philip
Sidney's
sister, may have dipped her quill in.
William Shakepeare the playwright is a successful
bit
of
propaganda
that paved the way for other enormous lies that
the
public
buys.
It's
really very easy for those in a position of power
to
promote an
idea
with PR and make the public believe it. Like
A=415
was
historical
baroque pitch, for instance.
__________________________________________________________________
From: [3][8][13][email protected]
<[4][9][14][email protected]>
on behalf
of Alain Veylit
<[5][10][15][email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 8:37 AM
To: howard posner; Lute net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: The awful English language
If you really want to have a blast at the awful
English
language,
look
for something called "law French", a language
understood
only
by
English
lawyers and very much alive until at least the
18th
century. It
makes
modern legaleeze sound simple, although still
difficult
to read
because
in very small letters. Many poor people sent to
the
gallows had
no idea
what was said at court...
Joke aside, given the introduction of many French
words
into
English
(500 words from Montaigne's translator alone) and
the
still
fairly
strong presence of French as a an aristocratic
language
for the
few and
the famous still in the 16th century, I am
wondering if
Shakespearian
English did not sound quite a bit more French
than one
might
think.
Which could mean that to study Elizabethan
English, you
might
have to
study Quebecois French, supposedly much closer to
17th
century
French
than Paris French... Or also study modern English
pronunciation
of
Latin, which to my ears sounds quite painful -
specially
the
diphtongs...
For example: modern English "Sir", from the
French
"sieur" (as
in
monsieur) might have sounded closer to the
original
French
"sire"
(lord/majesty : monsieur = mon sire = my lord);
the
word
"court"
might
have sounded closer to the French "cour".
I vaguely remember something about the great
diphtong
shift in
English
phonetics - that might account for the split from
the
French
word
"Sire"
(same "i" as Apple's "Siri") to the modern "Sir"
and
"Sire".
One
diphtonguized the other not. But the French is
ambiguous
since
we
have
both the word "sieur" (Pronounced pretty close to
"sir"
and
meaning
"lord" ) and "sire" (pronounced close to "Siri"
and
meaning
Majesty).
Americans might want to check this video to speak
proper
modern
English:
[1][6][11][16]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU and
learn about
diphtongs...
It's quite
scientific, you know...
On 09/16/2018 01:27 PM, howard posner wrote:
>> On Sep 16, 2018, at 12:14 PM, Matthew Daillie
<[7][12][17][email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> You might be interested in this video which
summarizes
some
of
the
research carried out by David Crystal et al on
English
pronunciation at
the time of Shakespeare (and Dowland) and the
productions
of
his
plays
at the Globe theatre using 'Original
Pronunciation':
>>
[2][8][13][18]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s
> Indeed, I was interested enough to have seen it
already. It
explores
the differences between modern Received
Pronunciation
that
London
stage
actors traditionally use, and the London stage
accent
of
400
years ago,
which is in many ways similar to the way English
sounds
in
Bristol
now. Of course, it's all a little peripheral
to the
question
of
whether Shakespeare might have spelled
differently in a
letter
to
his
wife in Stratford than he would in a play to be
spoken
in
London,
or
whether anyone would have cared.
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information
at
>
[3][9][14][19]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. [10][15][20]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU
2.
[11][16][21]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s
3.
[12][17][22]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1.
[1][18][23]https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-w
ill-
who-wro
te-shakespeare
2. [2]mailto:[19][24][email protected]
3. [3]mailto:[20][25][email protected]
4. [4]mailto:[21][26][email protected]
5. [5]mailto:[22][27][email protected]
6. [6][23][28]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU
7. [7]mailto:[24][29][email protected]
8.
[8][25][30]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s
9.
[9][26][31]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
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11.
[11][28][33]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s
12.
[12][29][34]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1.
[30][35]https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-will
-who
-wrote-shakespeare
2. mailto:[31][36][email protected]
3. mailto:[32][37][email protected]
4. mailto:[33][38][email protected]
5. mailto:[34][39][email protected]
6. [35][40]https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU
7. mailto:[36][41][email protected]
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9.
[38][43]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
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--
References
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--
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--
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21. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s
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32. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU
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100. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s
101. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
102. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU
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112. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s
113. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
114. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU
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124. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s
125. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
126. https://youtu.be/d7RTUXKv9KU
127. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s
128. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
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