The first time I heard Jason Vieaux on a Gernot Wagner, was in a
church. I had never heard of Gernot Wagner at the time, and did not
know any of the details of the construction. I thought the incredible
sound, response and sustain was because of the church. I was wrong. It
was the guitar.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
Classical Guitarist/Lutenist
On Mar 25, 2020, at 5:00 PM, Edward Martin <[1]edvihuel...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Two years ago, classic guitar virtuoso Jason Vieaux visited my city and
had an incredible concert and master class. Jason is a Grammy winning
artist. His guitar had a double top, and it was perhaps the loudest
guitar I have ever heard. I played a small passage on it (he offered)
and it is incredible, robust, a great instrument.
I wonder if such aesthetics would emote the truly sweet, beautiful
sound of our concept of how a good lite should sound.
Ed
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 25, 2020, at 6:21 PM, John Mardinly
<[2]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
 I have heard the terminology âcomposite top' and 'sandwich top'
in
addition to âdouble top', and they all refer to similar
construction,
although the earliest âdouble top' guitars used a layer of a
hexagonal
synthetic material called Nomex in between the two paper thin
layers on
wood.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
Classical Guitarist/Lutenist
On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:56 AM, Joachim Lüdtke
<[1][3]jo.lued...@t-online.de>
wrote:
Dear David, dear list,
I was a bit puzzled at first because I know the term double top,
but
only pointing to instruments like e.g. Marcard guitars with a
second,
'interior' soundboard. What you describe is what I think is usually
called a sandwiched soundboard. Is my terminology too limited or do
I
use it too strictly?
A few weeks ago, before the darn Corona guy rode into town, there
were
guitar days here in the Hochschule für Kunst und Musik in Bremen,
and
there were young builders showing their recently finished guitars,
and
one of the guitar teachers of the Hochschule playing a few measures
on
each of them. Most sounded excellent, and I am ashamed to say that
I
couldn't make much difference between the majority of the sounds,
neither did I ask for prices â¦
Best from the Hanseatics
Joachim
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Double Top
Datum: 2020-03-25T17:44:36+0100
Von: "David Smith" <[2][4]d...@dolcesfogato.com>
An: "Tristan von Neumann" <[3][5]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>,
"[4][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[5][7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
That cost is what a master builder charges for classical guitars -
10k-20k is pretty normal. The cost of doing a double top is really
not
that high. The materials are not expensive and vacuum is used for a
lot
of other things in the shop. I use it for attaching bridges and
holding
instruments while French polishing. The Dammann price is based on
his
reputation and not on it being a double top. You should be able to
find
good quality double tops starting around 3-4k.
As to using it on a lute, you have to like the sound of it because
it
is clearly not historical. I, personally, do not like the sound of
double tops that much. They sacrifice character for volume, imho.
But,
if you are trying to fill a concert hall without a microphone then
there are already a lot of sacrifices being made and the double top
is
just one more. For a more intimate setting I think it is overkill.
The
bracing from Trevor Gore (Falcate system -
[6][8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__goreguit
ars.com
.au_main_page-5Finnovation-5Fsummary-5Ffalcate-5Fbracing.html&d=DwI
FaQ&
c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1f
tlvx
MmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m=ftBiwVy6my8Jghtq9GSLqxpeyK73pixj5LSQEZHAiYQ&
s=hl
0F5qUAGqTuToEdzrjzuTjZ3Rl4kFVBRh16ZCVLBts&e= ) is more interesting.
It
makes for a very even sound throughout the instrument and provides
more
volume as well. Would I use it on a lute. Not likely.
Anyway, some random thoughts.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: [7][9]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
<[8][10]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of
Tristan von
Neumann
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:18 AM
To: [9][11]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double Top
For that money, I'd buy a Lute consort...
I don't see any advantage...
On 25.03.20 11:40, Jurgen Frenz wrote:
I read about the process to make such an instrument - from memory
the two slices are glued together under vacuum, to me it sounds
like
quite a costly process. The guitars made by the inventor of this
technology Matthias Dammann cost 15 000 ⬠a pop.
Jürgne
âââââââ Original Message âââââââ
On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:04 AM, Mark Probert
<[10][12]probe...@gmail.com> wrote:
John wrote:
Question is, has this been tried on a lute? Are there any
luthiers
interested in trying?
Interesting technology. As applied to a lute? Not so sure.
I suspect someone will but most won't as there is not really any
advantage and much disadvantage (the lamination process for
starters,
workin with nomex or similar, etc.).
The problem this construction "fixes" is loudness. While there
may
be
occassions when a lute is too soft, making up for it with an
overly
stiff soundboard would, I suspect, take away much of what makes a
lute sound the way it does.
Consider the following article for more
[11][13]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.
guitars
alon.com_blog_-3Fp-3D1467&d=DwIFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1Gyc
N4_
2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m=ftBi
wVy
6my8Jghtq9GSLqxpeyK73pixj5LSQEZHAiYQ&s=yrLjgm1jpe8Pk-Xcuhj76e-Hcn
TDD
AuAbyvOQzJWmg0&e=
Kind regards
.. mark.
To get on or off this list see list information at
[12][14]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.c
s.dartm
outh.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SR
Qus
p9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZO
NBR
t90E&m=ftBiwVy6my8Jghtq9GSLqxpeyK73pixj5LSQEZHAiYQ&s=2KTO6J5goEJB
6SN
NcJHlGKQ9qD-qAb81_VjYWrsKV84&e=

References
1. [15]mailto:jo.lued...@t-online.de
2. [16]mailto:d...@dolcesfogato.com
3. [17]mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
4. [18]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
5. [19]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
6.
[20]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__goreguitars
.com.au_main_page-5Finnovation-5Fsummary-5Ffalcate-5Fbracing.html&d=
DwIFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6j
oGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m=ftBiwVy6my8Jghtq9GSLqxpeyK73pixj5LS
QEZHAiYQ&s=hl0F5qUAGqTuToEdzrjzuTjZ3Rl4kFVBRh16ZCVLBts&e=
7. [21]mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
8. [22]mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
9. [23]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
10. [24]mailto:probe...@gmail.com
11.
[25]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.guitars
alon.com_blog_-3Fp-3D1467&d=DwIFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_
2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m=ftBiwVy
6my8Jghtq9GSLqxpeyK73pixj5LSQEZHAiYQ&s=yrLjgm1jpe8Pk-Xcuhj76e-HcnTDD
AuAbyvOQzJWmg0&e=
12.
[26]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartm
outh.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQus
p9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBR
t90E&m=ftBiwVy6my8Jghtq9GSLqxpeyK73pixj5LSQEZHAiYQ&s=2KTO6J5goEJB6SN
NcJHlGKQ9qD-qAb81_VjYWrsKV84&e=
References
1. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
2. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
3. mailto:jo.lued...@t-online.de
4. mailto:d...@dolcesfogato.com
5. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
7. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
8. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__goreguitars.com
9. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
10. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
11. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
12. mailto:probe...@gmail.com
13. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.guitars
14. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartm
15. mailto:jo.lued...@t-online.de
16. mailto:d...@dolcesfogato.com
17. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
18. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
19. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
20.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__goreguitars.com.au_main_page-5Finnovation-5Fsummary-5Ffalcate-5Fbracing.html&d=DwIFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m=ftBiwVy6my8Jghtq9GSLqxpeyK73pixj5LSQEZHAiYQ&s=hl0F5qUAGqTuToEdzrjzuTjZ3Rl4kFVBRh16ZCVLBts&e=
21. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
22. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
23. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
24. mailto:probe...@gmail.com
25.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.guitarsalon.com_blog_-3Fp-3D1467&d=DwIFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m=ftBiwVy6my8Jghtq9GSLqxpeyK73pixj5LSQEZHAiYQ&s=yrLjgm1jpe8Pk-Xcuhj76e-HcnTDDAuAbyvOQzJWmg0&e=
26.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=DwIFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&m=ftBiwVy6my8Jghtq9GSLqxpeyK73pixj5LSQEZHAiYQ&s=2KTO6J5goEJB6SNNcJHlGKQ9qD-qAb81_VjYWrsKV84&e=
