Well, I guess we all have our things. Ironically, the adjustment to editing text has been one of the easier parts of my adjustment to the Mac. *smile* Take care, Donna > -----Original Message----- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxwell Ivey Jr. > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:16 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: 3 features that hmm? > > > Thanks donna; only wish my transition from doss to windows had been > as easy. That was a real mind cramp sort of thing. Take care, Max > On Aug 29, 2009, at 10:07 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: > > > > > Nice post, Max. > > Donna > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxwell Ivey > >> Jr. > >> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:29 PM > >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > >> Subject: Re: 3 features that hmm? > >> > >> > >> Hello; Just speaking for myself the hardest adjustment i had to > make > >> when moving to a mac was getting used to the way you have to edit > >> text. Now, that I understand it, it is second nature; but it was a > >> real headache in the beginning. Another one that was a tough one to > >> get my mind around was not having multiple windows in my browser. I > >> finallly found out that you can have multiple finder and safari > >> windows you just cycle through them differently. It sounds like > >> apple > >> was doing its best to listen and adapt to what people were saying > >> were > >> short comings in voiceover. To me this is a good thing. Maybe they > >> didn't get this one issue right, but I believe they continually make > >> an honest effort to give us the most accessible easiest to use > >> product > >> out there. I'm still planning to wait on snow lepard. You know > why? > >> Its because of all the times I upgraded in windows and found things > >> were worse instead of better. Its for all the times I kept using > the > >> previous version of software out of fear that the next one wouldn't > >> work with jaws. So, thanks to apple for voiceover and their > >> continuing commitment to universal access. You all take care, Max > >> On Aug 29, 2009, at 7:45 PM, Marie Howarth wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> think I did say I was glad of the choice, just sad apple had to > >>> accomodate those who find it impossible to edit text in the way it > >>> is > >>> meant to be edited. they are features that yes, fine they are here > >>> now, just weren't really missing in my opinion. If others need > their > >>> screen reader to hold their hand cool. whatever everyone needs. as > I > >>> stated, opinion, that's all. everyone's allowed those :) > >>> > >>> On Aug 30, 2009, at 1:39 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Come on this is crazy. You just can't imagine the number of people > >>>> who > >>>> bitched and complained about this whole editing issue and I > believe > >>>> Apple was taken to task by one of the rags put out by the NFB or > >> some > >>>> organization about the editing issue. APparently enough people > >>>> complained that Apple was trying to provide the flexibility for > >> those > >>>> users who need it. Yeah, I am one of the Scotts who made this > >>>> point > >>>> because I remember clearly the noise about this editing issue. I > >> see > >>>> no benefit in removing it and quite frankly since it's here, > >> whatever > >>>> at this point. If it really helps someone , fine because there > are > >>>> those who would simply not consider the Mac for this reason. It > is > >>>> an > >>>> option and not a default and that is why it's a feature not worth > >>>> removing. My point is you have to think beyond what you have > stated > >>>> and I don't entirely disagree with your point of what is or is > >>>> not a > >>>> standard way of editing etc. At the same time, it obviously > didn't > >>>> take a great deal of effort to implement it and at least it is an > >>>> option. > >>>> On Aug 29, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Also just my oppinion, but I disagree about points 1 and 2. > >>>>> > >>>>> Can't say I ever have used feature numero uno in any OS as there > >> are > >>>>> so few webpages I'd actually want to read 100% of their content, > >> but > >>>>> someone somewhere will find it useful. You could argue that the > >>>>> reading webpages automatically is as close as Apple could get to > a > >>>>> sighted person glancing at the screen when the page comes up and > >>>>> taking in the bigger picture, which we can't do. > >>>>> > >>>>> Voiceover hints are definitely useful and a good thing. Context > >>>>> sensitive help like that enables most people to be on a way > >>>>> shorter > >>>>> learning curve usually than reading a whole manual and trying to > >>>>> apply > >>>>> things to a ton of situations at once. It's annoying that > they're > >>>>> enabled by default for you or I perhaps, but newbies are going to > >>>>> thank Apple for it no doubt. Come to that, so will developers > who > >>>>> fire up VO for the first time when they receive a disgruntled > >>>>> email > >>>>> from someone who's asking them to make adjustments to their > >>>>> applications. It'll instantly demonstrate to them the difference > >>>>> between what works and what doesn't, it gives them instructions > >>>>> equally as precise as that email from the VI user would in most > >>>>> cases. > >>>>> > >>>>> Wholeheartedly agreed about point 3 though. I just don't get > this > >>>>> one. You also hit the nail right on the head with the reason the > >>>>> option shouldn't exist, it modifies a standard that doesn't in > any > >>>>> way > >>>>> need to be modified, purely because of some VI people's rut that > >>>>> they're firmly jammed into. To add weight to a big sweeping > >>>>> oppinion > >>>>> like that, I should say that I was raised on Windows, still use > >>>>> Windows more often than many on here I expect, and I make my fair > >>>>> share of mistakes editing in Mac OS if I haven't done any in a > >>>>> while. > >>>>> I don't see this option as the solution, I see it as cheating. I > >>>>> doubt that many people will see this as an option to ease their > >>>>> progression into Mac OS as one of the other Scott's suggested, > >>>>> human's > >>>>> just don't work that way, for the most part we're creatures of > >> habit > >>>>> even if they're bad ones. > >>>>> > >>>>> Tricky one though isn't it. Emailing Apple and asking that a > >>>>> feature > >>>>> be removed seems somehow wrong in my mind. In any case, I'm not > >>>>> sure > >>>>> they'd get it. I just tried to explain why I disagree with the > >>>>> feature and what's potentially at stake here to a sighted mac > >>>>> user, > >>>>> and she point blank didn't get it. I'm not sure that anyone who > >>>>> hasn't had to appreciate how cool mainstream technology that > works > >>>>> for > >>>>> us out of the box would, even Apple themselves might not, they > >>>>> probably see the introduction of this feature as the best thing > >> they > >>>>> could've done to silence a lot of whinging lol. > >>>>> > >>>>> Just my 2 cents, or perhaps pennies worth for those on this side > >>>>> of > >>>>> the pond... > >>>>> Scott > >>>>> > >>>>> On 8/29/09, Scott Howell <s.how...@verizon.net> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Well good for you, I'm glad you did not need these features and > >> you > >>>>>> learned the way we all started out. However, of course the only > >>>>>> plus > >>>>>> side is that for those who want to make the transition and > really > >>>>>> find > >>>>>> what we "grew up with" difficult, will at least have a way to > >>>>>> ease > >>>>>> their transition over from the dark side. :) So, I agree with > >> you, > >>>>>> but these are small prices to pay if it will truly help someone > >>>>>> make > >>>>>> the transition. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Aug 29, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Marie Howarth wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> well, this is purely my opinion but 3 features that horribly > >>>>>>> remind me > >>>>>>> of windows are as follows. > >>>>>>> 1. automatic reading of a webpage. > >>>>>>> 2. voice over hints. I know what to do in a text area, > >>>>>>> especially > >>>>>>> when > >>>>>>> it already says edit text. > >>>>>>> 3. insertion point. this has been discussed, it's counter > >>>>>>> intuitive > >>>>>>> and doesn't teach the vi community how it would look to > >>>>>>> sighties. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> all I can say is I'm so glad these features are optional. they > >> are > >>>>>>> just horrific and no one can tell me that it will help > >> progression > >>>>>>> from windows to mac. I didn't have these features and I am so > >>>>>>> glad I > >>>>>>> did. mac is not windows, when will people realise this. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> overall vo rocks even more in this version, and I am grateful > to > >>>>>>> apple > >>>>>>> for giving us a choice. really glad. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >> > >> > >>> > >> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2333 - Release Date: > >> 08/29/09 17:51:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2333 - Release Date: > 08/29/09 17:51:00
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