Thanks donna; only wish my transition from doss to windows had been as easy. That was a real mind cramp sort of thing. Take care, Max On Aug 29, 2009, at 10:07 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> > Nice post, Max. > Donna > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxwell Ivey >> Jr. >> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:29 PM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: 3 features that hmm? >> >> >> Hello; Just speaking for myself the hardest adjustment i had to make >> when moving to a mac was getting used to the way you have to edit >> text. Now, that I understand it, it is second nature; but it was a >> real headache in the beginning. Another one that was a tough one to >> get my mind around was not having multiple windows in my browser. I >> finallly found out that you can have multiple finder and safari >> windows you just cycle through them differently. It sounds like >> apple >> was doing its best to listen and adapt to what people were saying >> were >> short comings in voiceover. To me this is a good thing. Maybe they >> didn't get this one issue right, but I believe they continually make >> an honest effort to give us the most accessible easiest to use >> product >> out there. I'm still planning to wait on snow lepard. You know why? >> Its because of all the times I upgraded in windows and found things >> were worse instead of better. Its for all the times I kept using the >> previous version of software out of fear that the next one wouldn't >> work with jaws. So, thanks to apple for voiceover and their >> continuing commitment to universal access. You all take care, Max >> On Aug 29, 2009, at 7:45 PM, Marie Howarth wrote: >> >>> >>> think I did say I was glad of the choice, just sad apple had to >>> accomodate those who find it impossible to edit text in the way it >>> is >>> meant to be edited. they are features that yes, fine they are here >>> now, just weren't really missing in my opinion. If others need their >>> screen reader to hold their hand cool. whatever everyone needs. as I >>> stated, opinion, that's all. everyone's allowed those :) >>> >>> On Aug 30, 2009, at 1:39 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Come on this is crazy. You just can't imagine the number of people >>>> who >>>> bitched and complained about this whole editing issue and I believe >>>> Apple was taken to task by one of the rags put out by the NFB or >> some >>>> organization about the editing issue. APparently enough people >>>> complained that Apple was trying to provide the flexibility for >> those >>>> users who need it. Yeah, I am one of the Scotts who made this >>>> point >>>> because I remember clearly the noise about this editing issue. I >> see >>>> no benefit in removing it and quite frankly since it's here, >> whatever >>>> at this point. If it really helps someone , fine because there are >>>> those who would simply not consider the Mac for this reason. It is >>>> an >>>> option and not a default and that is why it's a feature not worth >>>> removing. My point is you have to think beyond what you have stated >>>> and I don't entirely disagree with your point of what is or is >>>> not a >>>> standard way of editing etc. At the same time, it obviously didn't >>>> take a great deal of effort to implement it and at least it is an >>>> option. >>>> On Aug 29, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Also just my oppinion, but I disagree about points 1 and 2. >>>>> >>>>> Can't say I ever have used feature numero uno in any OS as there >> are >>>>> so few webpages I'd actually want to read 100% of their content, >> but >>>>> someone somewhere will find it useful. You could argue that the >>>>> reading webpages automatically is as close as Apple could get to a >>>>> sighted person glancing at the screen when the page comes up and >>>>> taking in the bigger picture, which we can't do. >>>>> >>>>> Voiceover hints are definitely useful and a good thing. Context >>>>> sensitive help like that enables most people to be on a way >>>>> shorter >>>>> learning curve usually than reading a whole manual and trying to >>>>> apply >>>>> things to a ton of situations at once. It's annoying that they're >>>>> enabled by default for you or I perhaps, but newbies are going to >>>>> thank Apple for it no doubt. Come to that, so will developers who >>>>> fire up VO for the first time when they receive a disgruntled >>>>> email >>>>> from someone who's asking them to make adjustments to their >>>>> applications. It'll instantly demonstrate to them the difference >>>>> between what works and what doesn't, it gives them instructions >>>>> equally as precise as that email from the VI user would in most >>>>> cases. >>>>> >>>>> Wholeheartedly agreed about point 3 though. I just don't get this >>>>> one. You also hit the nail right on the head with the reason the >>>>> option shouldn't exist, it modifies a standard that doesn't in any >>>>> way >>>>> need to be modified, purely because of some VI people's rut that >>>>> they're firmly jammed into. To add weight to a big sweeping >>>>> oppinion >>>>> like that, I should say that I was raised on Windows, still use >>>>> Windows more often than many on here I expect, and I make my fair >>>>> share of mistakes editing in Mac OS if I haven't done any in a >>>>> while. >>>>> I don't see this option as the solution, I see it as cheating. I >>>>> doubt that many people will see this as an option to ease their >>>>> progression into Mac OS as one of the other Scott's suggested, >>>>> human's >>>>> just don't work that way, for the most part we're creatures of >> habit >>>>> even if they're bad ones. >>>>> >>>>> Tricky one though isn't it. Emailing Apple and asking that a >>>>> feature >>>>> be removed seems somehow wrong in my mind. In any case, I'm not >>>>> sure >>>>> they'd get it. I just tried to explain why I disagree with the >>>>> feature and what's potentially at stake here to a sighted mac >>>>> user, >>>>> and she point blank didn't get it. I'm not sure that anyone who >>>>> hasn't had to appreciate how cool mainstream technology that works >>>>> for >>>>> us out of the box would, even Apple themselves might not, they >>>>> probably see the introduction of this feature as the best thing >> they >>>>> could've done to silence a lot of whinging lol. >>>>> >>>>> Just my 2 cents, or perhaps pennies worth for those on this side >>>>> of >>>>> the pond... >>>>> Scott >>>>> >>>>> On 8/29/09, Scott Howell <s.how...@verizon.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Well good for you, I'm glad you did not need these features and >> you >>>>>> learned the way we all started out. However, of course the only >>>>>> plus >>>>>> side is that for those who want to make the transition and really >>>>>> find >>>>>> what we "grew up with" difficult, will at least have a way to >>>>>> ease >>>>>> their transition over from the dark side. :) So, I agree with >> you, >>>>>> but these are small prices to pay if it will truly help someone >>>>>> make >>>>>> the transition. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 29, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Marie Howarth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> well, this is purely my opinion but 3 features that horribly >>>>>>> remind me >>>>>>> of windows are as follows. >>>>>>> 1. automatic reading of a webpage. >>>>>>> 2. voice over hints. I know what to do in a text area, >>>>>>> especially >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> it already says edit text. >>>>>>> 3. insertion point. this has been discussed, it's counter >>>>>>> intuitive >>>>>>> and doesn't teach the vi community how it would look to >>>>>>> sighties. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> all I can say is I'm so glad these features are optional. they >> are >>>>>>> just horrific and no one can tell me that it will help >> progression >>>>>>> from windows to mac. I didn't have these features and I am so >>>>>>> glad I >>>>>>> did. mac is not windows, when will people realise this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> overall vo rocks even more in this version, and I am grateful to >>>>>>> apple >>>>>>> for giving us a choice. really glad. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2333 - Release Date: >> 08/29/09 17:51:00 > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
