Hi Donna; It could have just been me, but that is the point. there are people out there who have been doing it one way for so long that any change can be frustrating. I remember how many times i deleted the wrong character or inserted a character in the wrong spot and had to do it over. Now, I'm used to it. And the few times i use the windows computer I have to remember things like pressing the spacebar before entering text in a form field. Mac is the way to go. Just wish we could convince the makers of adobe, flash, eudora, and others that we can't currently use on the mac. Take care, Max On Aug 29, 2009, at 10:29 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> > Well, I guess we all have our things. Ironically, the adjustment to > editing > text has been one of the easier parts of my adjustment to the Mac. > *smile* > Take care, > Donna >> -----Original Message----- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxwell Ivey >> Jr. >> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:16 PM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: 3 features that hmm? >> >> >> Thanks donna; only wish my transition from doss to windows had been >> as easy. That was a real mind cramp sort of thing. Take care, Max >> On Aug 29, 2009, at 10:07 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: >> >>> >>> Nice post, Max. >>> Donna >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxwell Ivey >>>> Jr. >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:29 PM >>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> Subject: Re: 3 features that hmm? >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello; Just speaking for myself the hardest adjustment i had to >> make >>>> when moving to a mac was getting used to the way you have to edit >>>> text. Now, that I understand it, it is second nature; but it was a >>>> real headache in the beginning. Another one that was a tough one >>>> to >>>> get my mind around was not having multiple windows in my >>>> browser. I >>>> finallly found out that you can have multiple finder and safari >>>> windows you just cycle through them differently. It sounds like >>>> apple >>>> was doing its best to listen and adapt to what people were saying >>>> were >>>> short comings in voiceover. To me this is a good thing. Maybe >>>> they >>>> didn't get this one issue right, but I believe they continually >>>> make >>>> an honest effort to give us the most accessible easiest to use >>>> product >>>> out there. I'm still planning to wait on snow lepard. You know >> why? >>>> Its because of all the times I upgraded in windows and found things >>>> were worse instead of better. Its for all the times I kept using >> the >>>> previous version of software out of fear that the next one wouldn't >>>> work with jaws. So, thanks to apple for voiceover and their >>>> continuing commitment to universal access. You all take care, Max >>>> On Aug 29, 2009, at 7:45 PM, Marie Howarth wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> think I did say I was glad of the choice, just sad apple had to >>>>> accomodate those who find it impossible to edit text in the way it >>>>> is >>>>> meant to be edited. they are features that yes, fine they are here >>>>> now, just weren't really missing in my opinion. If others need >> their >>>>> screen reader to hold their hand cool. whatever everyone needs. as >> I >>>>> stated, opinion, that's all. everyone's allowed those :) >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 30, 2009, at 1:39 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Come on this is crazy. You just can't imagine the number of >>>>>> people >>>>>> who >>>>>> bitched and complained about this whole editing issue and I >> believe >>>>>> Apple was taken to task by one of the rags put out by the NFB or >>>> some >>>>>> organization about the editing issue. APparently enough people >>>>>> complained that Apple was trying to provide the flexibility for >>>> those >>>>>> users who need it. Yeah, I am one of the Scotts who made this >>>>>> point >>>>>> because I remember clearly the noise about this editing issue. I >>>> see >>>>>> no benefit in removing it and quite frankly since it's here, >>>> whatever >>>>>> at this point. If it really helps someone , fine because there >> are >>>>>> those who would simply not consider the Mac for this reason. It >> is >>>>>> an >>>>>> option and not a default and that is why it's a feature not worth >>>>>> removing. My point is you have to think beyond what you have >> stated >>>>>> and I don't entirely disagree with your point of what is or is >>>>>> not a >>>>>> standard way of editing etc. At the same time, it obviously >> didn't >>>>>> take a great deal of effort to implement it and at least it is an >>>>>> option. >>>>>> On Aug 29, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also just my oppinion, but I disagree about points 1 and 2. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can't say I ever have used feature numero uno in any OS as there >>>> are >>>>>>> so few webpages I'd actually want to read 100% of their content, >>>> but >>>>>>> someone somewhere will find it useful. You could argue that the >>>>>>> reading webpages automatically is as close as Apple could get to >> a >>>>>>> sighted person glancing at the screen when the page comes up and >>>>>>> taking in the bigger picture, which we can't do. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Voiceover hints are definitely useful and a good thing. Context >>>>>>> sensitive help like that enables most people to be on a way >>>>>>> shorter >>>>>>> learning curve usually than reading a whole manual and trying to >>>>>>> apply >>>>>>> things to a ton of situations at once. It's annoying that >> they're >>>>>>> enabled by default for you or I perhaps, but newbies are going >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> thank Apple for it no doubt. Come to that, so will developers >> who >>>>>>> fire up VO for the first time when they receive a disgruntled >>>>>>> email >>>>>>> from someone who's asking them to make adjustments to their >>>>>>> applications. It'll instantly demonstrate to them the >>>>>>> difference >>>>>>> between what works and what doesn't, it gives them instructions >>>>>>> equally as precise as that email from the VI user would in most >>>>>>> cases. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wholeheartedly agreed about point 3 though. I just don't get >> this >>>>>>> one. You also hit the nail right on the head with the reason >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> option shouldn't exist, it modifies a standard that doesn't in >> any >>>>>>> way >>>>>>> need to be modified, purely because of some VI people's rut that >>>>>>> they're firmly jammed into. To add weight to a big sweeping >>>>>>> oppinion >>>>>>> like that, I should say that I was raised on Windows, still use >>>>>>> Windows more often than many on here I expect, and I make my >>>>>>> fair >>>>>>> share of mistakes editing in Mac OS if I haven't done any in a >>>>>>> while. >>>>>>> I don't see this option as the solution, I see it as >>>>>>> cheating. I >>>>>>> doubt that many people will see this as an option to ease their >>>>>>> progression into Mac OS as one of the other Scott's suggested, >>>>>>> human's >>>>>>> just don't work that way, for the most part we're creatures of >>>> habit >>>>>>> even if they're bad ones. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tricky one though isn't it. Emailing Apple and asking that a >>>>>>> feature >>>>>>> be removed seems somehow wrong in my mind. In any case, I'm not >>>>>>> sure >>>>>>> they'd get it. I just tried to explain why I disagree with the >>>>>>> feature and what's potentially at stake here to a sighted mac >>>>>>> user, >>>>>>> and she point blank didn't get it. I'm not sure that anyone who >>>>>>> hasn't had to appreciate how cool mainstream technology that >> works >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> us out of the box would, even Apple themselves might not, they >>>>>>> probably see the introduction of this feature as the best thing >>>> they >>>>>>> could've done to silence a lot of whinging lol. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just my 2 cents, or perhaps pennies worth for those on this side >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the pond... >>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/29/09, Scott Howell <s.how...@verizon.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well good for you, I'm glad you did not need these features and >>>> you >>>>>>>> learned the way we all started out. However, of course the >>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>> plus >>>>>>>> side is that for those who want to make the transition and >> really >>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>> what we "grew up with" difficult, will at least have a way to >>>>>>>> ease >>>>>>>> their transition over from the dark side. :) So, I agree with >>>> you, >>>>>>>> but these are small prices to pay if it will truly help someone >>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>> the transition. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 29, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Marie Howarth wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> well, this is purely my opinion but 3 features that horribly >>>>>>>>> remind me >>>>>>>>> of windows are as follows. >>>>>>>>> 1. automatic reading of a webpage. >>>>>>>>> 2. voice over hints. I know what to do in a text area, >>>>>>>>> especially >>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>> it already says edit text. >>>>>>>>> 3. insertion point. this has been discussed, it's counter >>>>>>>>> intuitive >>>>>>>>> and doesn't teach the vi community how it would look to >>>>>>>>> sighties. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> all I can say is I'm so glad these features are optional. they >>>> are >>>>>>>>> just horrific and no one can tell me that it will help >>>> progression >>>>>>>>> from windows to mac. I didn't have these features and I am so >>>>>>>>> glad I >>>>>>>>> did. mac is not windows, when will people realise this. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> overall vo rocks even more in this version, and I am grateful >> to >>>>>>>>> apple >>>>>>>>> for giving us a choice. really glad. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2333 - Release Date: >>>> 08/29/09 17:51:00 >>> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2333 - Release Date: >> 08/29/09 17:51:00 > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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