Kawal, haha well said and for the record I’m on your side with this one.  To me 
though moderators are more like little power hungry DMV workers who have no 
control over their own lives so they have to force their wills where they can.  
(Kawal and folks over sees the DMV is the department of motor vehicles where 
you go to get your license or registration in the US). They are usually staffed 
by angry government workers who are in a position to take out on the rest of us 
all their stresses and inadequacies.  It’s like the little droids you see 
around who get handed a clipboard and all the sudden become the dictators of 
their personal spheres.  Ok I know an international example that everyone will 
get.  Remember the kid appointed hall monitor and goes all power hungry because 
someone gave him or her the authority to check hall passes.  Like I said I take 
my direction from the folks with the Harvard and Yale law degrees, not from 
people who get their information from alien shows on the history channel or 
make it up as they go along.  But hey, at least we’re not discussing the beta 
right?  You keep doing what you’re doing Kawal I love your posts, your 
perspective on things and I wouldn’t ever call you immature like some other 
alien lovers on list have.

Keep em coming
 
  



> On Aug 10, 2017, at 6:05 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu <kgli...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> ET, for years the moderator's notes have not really change.  They are forever 
> telling someone off and so it is like a kid being naughty doing the same over 
> and over.  I'd rather laugh otherwise we'll all get in to a punch up as it 
> were.  Don't forget, what are we, people who don't really know each other and 
> no one knows us on these lists as no one knows what our lives are for what 
> it's worth I might be someone whose had a bad day you don't know so I need 
> something to make me laugh don't you think?  I've had a hard day's work and I 
> need a little light relief so you might as well remember that.  I'm not 
> stupid as I make out to be just trying to relax after a hard day's work.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 10 Aug 2017, at 22:40, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  What I have found, and still find after all these years. amusing is how the 
>> "kids" show total lack of maturity. Kawal, you do not need to subject 
>> yourself to the whims of the moderators, just show yourself out. Doing so 
>> would prove your own maturity.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 8/10/2017 2:25 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>>> Sorry, but I find moderator's notes amusing.  You don't know how much I 
>>> laugh because little things turn in to big things.  I've not had such a 
>>> laugh for a long time on this list.  May be I'll get in to trouble, but at 
>>> this point, I am not too worried.
>>> 
>>> Cara sounds like the head mistress, Mark sounds like the naughty head 
>>> deputy who did a slight boo boo and Scott is like the kid who said 
>>> something to start this all off!  Like you do normally do Scott, always 
>>> gets caught out and gets in to trouble so he says 'sorry miss and Mr so so, 
>>> won't do it again' but you know it happens again and it catches the mods 
>>> out!  Oh such fun.
>>>> On 10 Aug 2017, at 18:29, Cara Quinn <caraqu...@caraquinn.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hey Scott,
>>>> 
>>>> Why are you saying this policy has to do with personal feelings when you 
>>>> have not taken any time at all to get to know either me or Mark? You have 
>>>> no idea what our personal feelings are on this.
>>>> 
>>>> -Okay, to be fair, perhaps you have gotten to know Mark unbeknownst to me, 
>>>> but I know you and I don’t really know each other. :)
>>>> 
>>>> So please don’t stir the pot just for the sake of stirring the pot. This 
>>>> isn’t about our personal feelings.
>>>> 
>>>> Anyway, for the record, I really couldn’t care less if we discuss beta 
>>>> material or not, providing that public discussion is permitted in the user 
>>>> agreement provided along with the software for the public beta program. 
>>>> -And, for what it’s worth, I agree with you that as blind customers, we 
>>>> really need to make our voices heard on issues that are important to us. I 
>>>> just don’t believe that we should be breaking agreements to do it unless 
>>>> that is absolutely our *only* available option.
>>>> 
>>>> Since I am not a member of the public beta program, if someone would like 
>>>> to post the agreement here or point me to it, I’ll be happy to take a look.
>>>> 
>>>> If it says we can discuss it then we’ll simply change the policy. No 
>>>> biggie.
>>>> 
>>>> This is not some big personal thing, this is just a matter of a simple 
>>>> user agreement. That’s all.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers!
>>>> 
>>>> Cara
>>>> 
>>>> ---
>>>> iOS design and development - LookTel.com
>>>> ---
>>>> View my Online Portfolio at:
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn
>>>> 
>>>> Follow me on Twitter!
>>>> 
>>>> https://twitter.com/ModelCara
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 10, 2017, at 8:24 AM, Scott Granados <scott.grana...@gmail.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Why join a list when the rules are based in some arbitrary feeling that is 
>>>> based on personal feelings rather than the law?
>>>> 
>>>> That’s just silly.
>>>> 
>>>> Counter to you, on any list I run feel free to discuss public anything as 
>>>> much as you like.  Public betas to public flogging, doesn’t matter to me.  
>>>> Nor does it matter to Apple, their legal teams or any boiler plate.
>>>> 
>>>> It’s fine if Mark wants no discussion on a topic but don’t represent 
>>>> something that’s not true, it’s a personal decision not one based on 
>>>> anything legal or even best practices.  Public anything is open for 
>>>> discussion.  Developer betas are a different matter and nobody crossed 
>>>> that line.
>>>> 
>>>> Sometimes it’ really hurts.
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 10, 2017, at 9:33 AM, christopher hallsworth 
>>>> <challswor...@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am, and will still stand by mine and the group management thoughts on 
>>>>> this. Questions about either Developer or public betas should not be 
>>>>> allowed, in my opinion. Nough said. I do not allow such discussion on my 
>>>>> own general technology list, which, btw you are more than welcome to 
>>>>> join. Please ask off list so as to avoid clutter. Cheers!
>>>>>> On 10 Aug 2017, at 13:55, Ray Foret jr <rforet7...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Not even public beta questions.  Why?  Simple.  It’s still beta and 
>>>>>> therefore, falls under Apple’s non disclosure agreement.
>>>>>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the 
>>>>>> blind built-in
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
>>>>>> iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2017, at 7:25 AM, Anders Holmberg <and...@pipkrokodil.se> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi mark!
>>>>>>> I am sorry for that one.
>>>>>>> Not even public beta questions?
>>>>>>> If not then i am very sorry to ask this here.
>>>>>>> /A
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 10 aug. 2017 kl. 05:57 skrev M. Taylor <mk...@ucla.edu>:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hello Anders,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Beta software questions are not for this list.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If you have beta software questions, you may request that list members 
>>>>>>>> contact you, off-list.  Please be sure to include your direct email 
>>>>>>>> address in the body of the post.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>>>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 8:41 PM
>>>>>>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries
>>>>>>>> Subject: Ios 11 beta and airplay and VoiceOver.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>> For you who are testing the latest Ios 11 Public Beta i have a 
>>>>>>>> question for you.
>>>>>>>> If you’re using airplay, does VoiceOver follow the airplay audio so 
>>>>>>>> that it comes through the airplay system instead of the Iphone speaker?
>>>>>>>> I have this problem and can’t even use the audio routing feature so 
>>>>>>>> that voiceover will stay on the iphone.
>>>>>>>> I have reported this to apple.
>>>>>>>> I have another problem where in controlcenter i cant select any 
>>>>>>>> airport device which was possible in ios 10.
>>>>>>>> /A
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>> 
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>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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> 
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> list.
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> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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