Hi Scott,
First off, let me say one Macintosh related item.
I can determine where entered data is when using the Macintosh if I switch from
"DOM" navigation to "Group" Navigation. When I do this then vo-arrows will
usually move me around the grid of entered information though when there is no
information in a cell VO is quite happy to skip over until it find a cell with
data.
The Deltec system that I used had to be filled out by a couple of
sub-contractors from a small company then known as Freedom Scientific.
Apparently they approached the Time keeping vendor and suggested t working
cooperatively to resolve accessibility issues to no avail. Deltec can get away
with this because they don't sell to Government they just sell to Government
contractors and internal government contractor systems do not need to meet
Section 508.
The rest of this message is strictly for a response to Scott.
I use Deltec at one point I attempted to insert ARIA Grid attributes into the
HTML, but since Deltec organized their information by columns instead of rows
JAWS did not like this very much. It was a good object lesson into writing
JavaScript splices into existing web pages.
If you have JAWS around, can you do the following for me?
1. move to a entry field.
2. press jaws-control-shift-F1.
3. Copy all the information from there and e-mail it to me. If you have JAWS 17
I like the output better from that command on JAWs 17 than on JAWS 18.
The command lists all the attributes in the current HTML element and all of its
parents. I can scan that and if your time system is anything like Deltec time
system than I will be able to tell from the output.
—
Best wishes,
Jonathan Cohn
> On Aug 25, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Scott Granados <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> John and Erik,
> I’m very interested in this thread. I am in the same boat with John.
> We use plan view which is absolutely tricky under both Safari and on the
> windows side with exploder. Fields seem to move on me and appear in
> different places as well as a lot of controls that don’t seem to appear.
> John, which time keeping tool are you using
>
>
>> On Aug 25, 2017, at 11:14 AM, Erik Burggraaf <[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jonathan,
>>
>> I have thought on your situation. I think you need to first document the
>> issue for yourself, including technical steps you took to solve the issue
>> and time spent both on task, and working on solutions so that your company
>> can see the scope of the problem. Then you want to use your own chain of
>> command. IE, first show your document to your manager, and ask them to take
>> it to the next level, keeping you in the loop as the process takes shape.
>> a
>> It may seem that you have an H r issue, but actually, you may have an IT or
>> procurement issue. Your manager is the person to get your document into the
>> right hands internally. If your manager failed to support you in your
>> attempt to get the issue resolved, that would for sure be an HR issue.
>>
>> In your document, you would probably be asking for one of two resolutions.
>> First, have IT interface with the developer of the time sheet software to
>> get the bug fixed at the software level.
>> Second, if that fails, procure and deploy a new time tracking software after
>> testing to make sure that new software meets all the company's needs
>> including diversity.
>>
>> If your company is a good customer, they shouldn't need to threaten to get
>> things done. Apparently zendesk was created a situation where they were
>> ignoring accessibility issues and refusing to co-operate.
>>
>> If you are very lucky, the software you use is developed directly by your
>> company. In that case, they can do everything internally and you can
>> participate in the solution. Clearly you have the expertese required to do
>> that.
>>
>> Above all, be positive and proactive. Include your chain of command. Be
>> thurough, and give the company every possible opportunity to help you if
>> they will. If not, be sure to document that too and fall on them from a
>> great height if you have to, but this issue doesn't sound like something you
>> should have to put your job in jepperdy for. Legal action or threat of
>> action must be the ultimate last resourt here.
>>
>> Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help, though it sounds
>> like you have a good grasp of the situation.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Erik
>>
>> On August 23, 2017 10:30:53 PM Jonathan Cohn <[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, interesting my last two positions have required me to use a specific
>>> time keeping tool. The only way I can accurately determine what field I am
>>> placing my current hours in is to bring up the "id" of the HTML field
>>> (something like d0_12 would be the forth accounting code line thirteen day
>>> on a time sheet. I started writing JAWS scripts to determine where I was
>>> but after one set of corruption I gave up. My company is supportive of
>>> diversity, but I have never talked to HR about how unusable the time system
>>> is. Even my sighted colleagues say it is difficult,. When I have 5 or 6
>>> billing codes in a time period then it takes me 15 minutes to enter my time
>>> and verify that it is placed correctly.
>>> Any templates of what to say especially since I have been working with this
>>> company for over a year and not complained yet.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Jonathan Cohn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Aug 23, 2017, at 10:25 AM, Erik Burggraaf <[email protected]
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I've neverr had an issue managing zendesk tickets as an end user. Sorry
>>>> to hear it causes issues on the back end for blind tech support employees.
>>>>
>>>> I think the best way to handle this is to have the employer write a
>>>> letter. The letter should come from the company's legal department and
>>>> include human resource contacts. The letter should introduce the blind
>>>> employee in general terms and explain the hiring laws in the jurisdiction
>>>> where the company operates. Then it should explain that the the employee
>>>> would take legal action against the company if the company on hiring them,
>>>> did not ficilitate their ability to perform the essential functions of the
>>>> job. Then it should explain that if the company were found liable for
>>>> loss and dammages caused by technical accessibility issues, the company
>>>> would be forced to take legal action against zendesk to recover their
>>>> losses. As a remedy, the letter should suggest that all three parties
>>>> work together to address the accessibility of zendesk and thereby inprove
>>>> accessibility in many workplaces across the technical support industry.
>>>> It definitely means more when accessibility is proposed by corporate
>>>> account holders than it does when one end user tries to make noise on
>>>> their own.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Erik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On August 23, 2017 9:57:49 AM Mika Pyyhkala <[email protected]
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would also encourage you and others on this list to write to them
>>>> either through the official customer support channels or through
>>>> executives at the company.
>>>>
>>>> I wrote to them a while back, and they basically just said that
>>>> accessibility is not a priority.
>>>>
>>>> Also if they have any federal government installations that could be a
>>>> Section 508 issue.
>>>>
>>>> I too found it possibly useable, although all functions may not work
>>>> and it may be cumbersome to use.
>>>>
>>>> Also I'm not sure if anyone knows of a similar request management
>>>> system that is fully accessible that may be in use at large
>>>> enterprises.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Mika
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/23/17, Mike Arrigo <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I use it every day, it's useable but yes, the accessibility falls short
>>>>> because many of the buttons are not labeled and some of the pop up
>>>>> menus are not standard. I had emailed them about this when we first
>>>>> started using Zendesk and the response was basically, the site was not
>>>>> really designed with accessibility in mind, that's really helpful! It
>>>>> points out a problem that is all too common though, many sites are not
>>>>> designed from the ground up with accessibility in mind even though they
>>>>> should be.
>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ve started a new job, and my employer uses Zendesk. I was just
>>>>>> wondering if anyone on list has used it recently, say within the last 6
>>>>>> months? I understand accessibility left much to be desire from what
>>>>>> I’ve red online. I was just hoping to get input from anyone who has
>>>>>> used it recently.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ricardo.
>>>>>
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