Well, air your only reason to have the mouse is to disable the trackpad, then
you could put masking tape over the laser on the bottom of the mouse.
Best wishes,
Jonathan Cohn
> On Jun 10, 2022, at 15:29, Karen Lewellen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Tim,
> I may want the external keyboard anyway, had planned on one because my hands
> are finding holding several keys on a single side of the board a bit of a
> challenge.
> My hopefully better option though will be using voice control with voiceover
> for the combinations I find challenging, if I ever find a full list of
> commands.
> The mouse idea is brilliant, I take it there is a way to keep said mouse from
> impacting things by moving?
> Thanks,
> Kare
>
>
>
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2022, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Regarding hearing things when passwords are being entered. That is only half
>> correct. There should be a clicking noise that you hear when entering a
>> password. The sound is somewhat similar to that of a typewriter.
>>
>> For the sensitivity of the TrackPad, I suggest plugging in a USB mouse. You
>> can set it so that the TrackPad is disabled when an external TrackPad or
>> mouse is connected to the Mac. This is done in System Preferences,
>> Accessibility, Mouse & TrackPad, then the Options button. This will save you
>> the headache of that sensitivity and will negate the need for an external
>> keyboard.
>>
>> HTH.
>>
>> Later…
>>
>>
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Jamf Certified Tech
>> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2022, at 20:54, Karen Lewellen <[email protected]
>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> hi there,
>>> yes, the trackpad, which will be fine if it can be made less sensitive to
>>> slight touch.
>>> i was calling accessibility directly, recalling that others have complained
>>> about them of late.
>>> Speaking personally, the guy who responded to my being in crisis voiceover
>>> wise by questioning why I was using Catalina, is more of a poor training
>>> example than too much work.
>>> The Female main my apple representative locating details about my nearest
>>> Apple store was sensational...even apologizing for the 90 minutes I tried
>>> to solve the issue before getting mr. why are you using Catalina apple
>>> accessibility...and did I share he made it clear he was blind?
>>> And also illustrates why I want in-store staff to work with, not just a
>>> blind person. speaking personally a shared label does not a shared
>>> experience make.
>>> My housemate for whom vision is not an issue absolutely loved working with
>>> voiceover, because the experience was new and fun.
>>> If I can create that in person and in store, I feel a little less
>>> separation may result.
>>> I respect the password information, but that no feedback is provided while
>>> typing is concerning, or at least apple accessibility says I will not hear
>>> the keys while I type my password.
>>> best,
>>> Kare
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 9 Jun 2022, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>
>>>> Karen,
>>>> Just a couple points. Or three. Keep in mind that Apple likely fields
>>>> hundreds of calls and emails daily. They try hard to be of assistance.
>>>>
>>>> Tour 2012 Mac has no touch bar as later models do. You must be referring
>>>> to the track pad. An external keyboard would certainly help there. Or an
>>>> external trackpad which then allows disabling the built in one via a
>>>> setting.
>>>>
>>>> If you are prompted for your login password, you can enter it when
>>>> prompted. You will get used to it because it is part of the security
>>>> scheme Apple has implemented. Yes its annoying but there it is.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you can find a local blind user through a local blind organization
>>>> who can come and help? Might be worth a try.
>>>>
>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>> "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
>>>> will make violent revolution inevitable."
>>>> --John F. Kennedy
>>>> My e-Mail:
>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/9/2022 6:21 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>>>> hi Tim,
>>>>> One of your answers sort of illustrates how off the mark Apple
>>>>> accessibility was then.
>>>>> they did not reference a need to connect, simply tried, and failed, given
>>>>> the steps were missing its no wonder.
>>>>> we did adjust the basic system audio, finding no startup sound checkbox
>>>>> either.
>>>>> Still knowing about f11 and f12 helps allot, so thanks for that as well.
>>>>> I have decided to seek an apple store in person because I am truly
>>>>> hoping there is some way to curb how this machine's touch bar...which I
>>>>> absolutely hate, react, lower the level of sensitivity.
>>>>> My sleeves set the thing off, and it impacts what is happening, with my
>>>>> being too new at things to get out of what happens. If not I will need to
>>>>> use an external keyboard, something keeps triggering a request for me to
>>>>> provide my administrative password, with my not managing to find the
>>>>> old school apple tutorial under voiceover utilities either.
>>>>> its frustrating getting locked into say a folder in a utility,
>>>>> following the steps I believe I am hearing, for nothing to work.
>>>>> On the other hand it was cool hearing my battery level by using vo-m and
>>>>> working my way across.
>>>>> No idea why I believed the Music app came with big shore, its a part of
>>>>> Catalina too.
>>>>> Anyway we forge forward.
>>>>> kare
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 9 Jun 2022, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>>>> See my responses below in your text.
>>>>>>> Later…
>>>>>>>> Tim Kilburn
>>>>>> Jamf Certified Tech
>>>>>> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
>>>>>> Apple Teacher
>>>>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>>>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>>>>>>> On Jun 8, 2022, at 17:48, Karen Lewellen <[email protected]
>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> > > wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> Not necessarily, at least for my combination of experiences.
>>>>>>> If I do, as I plan tomorrow, check the sound effects sub-menu and a > >
>>>>>>> means of setting sound as you wisely share here, I get to establish > >
>>>>>>> a baseline of sound that from an auditory processing standpoint > >
>>>>>>> insures I can say hear past the tinnitus I have in one ear. I > >
>>>>>>> already know my associate states the volume is low.
>>>>>>> From what you provide here f-11 and f-12 will adjust the system volume
>>>>>>> > > allowing me to make changes, when wearing headphones, or using a >
>>>>>>> > speaker, or any number of situations.
>>>>>>> Still, and I am happy to be corrected if wrong, would not the sound > >
>>>>>>> return to the level of the computer once shut down, meaning it > >
>>>>>>> would not absolutely recall where I left the f-11 f-12 setting?
>>>>>>> TK: The level of volume that was set before restart or shutdown is >
>>>>>>> normally the level that it will return to upon startup the next time.
>>>>>>>> again happy to be wrong, but for me personally, better to have a sound
>>>>>>>> > > baseline I can adjust then hear nothing by mistake.
>>>>>>> Will report on the startup checkbox, if my time tomorrow supports your
>>>>>>> > > wisdom, I will be sharing that with apple accessibility.
>>>>>>> After all, not only did I provide my apple id, but I shared the exact >
>>>>>>> > Catalina edition I use..so no reason for misinformation.
>>>>>>> While I have your ear, what steps must I go through for an apple > >
>>>>>>> accessibility person's effort to see my screen actually work?
>>>>>>> They claimed that when tried the system on their side said they could >
>>>>>>> > not find my mac...go figure.
>>>>>>> TK: They should be able to connect to you either via a share screen >
>>>>>>> request through iMessages, or they can send you a link that you can >
>>>>>>> connect to through their support system. If by iMessage, you will need
>>>>>>> > iMessage set up on your Mac with either or both of your Apple ID
>>>>>>> eMail > or mobile phone number enabled as iMessage usable.
>>>>>>>> If there is an additional setting, I would appreciate knowing in case
>>>>>>>> > > I have another problem like yesterday.
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Karen
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>> This is being made more complex than it needs to be.
>>>>>>>>>>> • System volume is the level of everything. This is controlled > >
>>>>>>>>>>> > either by the volume keys, F11 and F12 for down and up
>>>>>>>>>>> respectively, > > > or you can use the VoiceOver command of
>>>>>>>>>>> VO-minus or VO-equals. > > > Yes, there is control for this in the
>>>>>>>>>>> Sound pane, but that would > > > make your life more complicated
>>>>>>>>>>> and there’s no need to go there.
>>>>>>>> • the Apple Accessibility representative was mistaken for > > >
>>>>>>>> Catalina. This checkbox for the Startup Chime is not available in > >
>>>>>>>> > Catalina. It was introduced in Big Sur.
>>>>>>>> • if you currently do not have the Startup Chime, then you’ll > > >
>>>>>>>> either need to turn up the system volume, which I’ve outlined > > >
>>>>>>>> above, use the Terminal command I outlined in an earlier post, or, > >
>>>>>>>> > in some cases, you can reset the PRAM and it will be heard.
>>>>>>>> • to reset the PRAM, turn your Mac off, then wait a few seconds, > > >
>>>>>>>> turn it back on and immediately hold down cmd+option+r+p. Some > > >
>>>>>>>> finger gymnastics, but doable.
>>>>>>>>>>> As I mentioned from the beginning, the Startup Chime was initially
>>>>>>>>>>> a > > > hardware change, so older Macs that originally had the
>>>>>>>>>>> Startup Chime > > > should not have lost it in the first place.
>>>>>>>>>>> HTH.
>>>>>>>>>>> Later…
>>>>>>>>>>> Tim Kilburn
>>>>>>>> Jamf Certified Tech
>>>>>>>> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
>>>>>>>> Apple Teacher
>>>>>>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>>>>>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 7, 2022, at 21:08, Karen Lewellen > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If Apple accessibility is correct and it is considered to be a >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > sound effect, hopefully there will indeed be a volume for >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > effects in general as e. T. is suggesting.
>>>>>>>>> will find out on Thursday.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 7 Jun 2022, Herbie Allen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, with the startup sound, I don’t even know if you can >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > change the volume. Maybe in terminal, but I don’t think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can > > > > > even change the volume level of VO on the logon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Screen that you > > > > > get with File Valt and I don’t think I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could last time I had > > > > > it in recovery mode, though that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was a while back so I could be > > > > > wrong on that one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 7, 2022, at 21:21, Karen Lewellen > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not interested in doing this in the terminal, although I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > imagine Johnathan's information will help someone.
>>>>>>>>>>> Instead I am interested in where the settings for system > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> > volume are located.
>>>>>>>>>>> I intend on Thursday to have sighted help adjust this setting, > >
>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > I am not solid enough in voiceover as of yet to do this, we
>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > are still optimizing my computer for my use.
>>>>>>>>>>> Karen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 7 Jun 2022, 'Tim Kilburn' via
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MacVisionaries wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can use:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sudo nvram StartupMute=%00
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To enable the startup chime on a Mac where it has been > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > muted. Remember that in Terminal, when you use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > > > > > > > “sudo” command, you will be asked to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter your password > > > > > > > if you’re an Admin of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer. There will be no > > > > > > > audio feedback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when entering this password in Terminal like > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you would here in regular situations. If you’re not in an >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > Admin account, you will not be able to use this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> command.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Later…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tim Kilburn
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jamf Certified Tech
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple Teacher
>>>>>>>>>>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 7, 2022, at 16:24, Jonathan C. Cohn > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On mac's that do not have startup chime, you can still >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > enable it in the terminal app with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> command that examines > > > > > > > > and changes nvram
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings for the computer. I think it > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might have been Alex Hall that posted the recipe to turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > this on. Or perhaps a man --- c nvram
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will pull up the > > > > > > > > sntax. My mac is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couple 100 miles away so can't be very > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 7, 2022, at 5:59 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > MacVisionaries <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If your volume is set low, then, yes, the startup chime
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > will normally be set low as well. Are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you saying that > > > > > > > > > when you restart, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> startup your computer from scratch, > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you do not hear any startup chime?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Later…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tim Kilburn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jamf Certified Tech
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple Teacher
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 7, 2022, at 15:51, Karen Lewellen > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > <[email protected] > > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Tim,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My understanding is that this is the very last Mac os > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > before big shore, which may be why the sound is > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > missing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As i am profoundly new to all this, I want to insure I > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > have it, was never a windows user so all this boot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > time makes me crazy laughs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about turning up the sound if needful?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kare
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 7 Jun 2022, 'Tim Kilburn'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via MacVisionaries > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The startup chime was a computer specific item in >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > that model of Mac. That is, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> startup chime > > > > > > > > > > > should still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work normally on that device without > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > any intervention in System Preferences. I’m
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > willing to be corrected, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also believe that the > > > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> checkbox that they’re speaking of was not present >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > in Catalina, only Big Sur and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> newer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, it will not make that sound upon opening the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lid > > > > > > > > > > > as it is a chime that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sounded as part of the boot > > > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process. In older Macs, before it was removed, it >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > doubled as kind of a system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> check. If you heard > > > > > > > > > > > that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noise, then the hardware was OK, and it should > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > proceed to bring up the MacOS,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unless the drive was > > > > > > > > > > > a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Later…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tim Kilburn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jamf Certified Tech
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple Teacher
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 7, 2022, at 15:35, Karen Lewellen > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > <[email protected] > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a mid 2012 15 inch macbook pro retina now > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > running os 10.15.7 Catalina.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recall the discussion about the apple start up > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > sound being removed, was told by apple > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > accessibility that this is corrected by > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > accessing system preferences, sound, sound >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > effects, and making sure there is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> checkbox > > > > > > > > > > > > beside start up sound.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I do not recall though is how one insures the > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > start up sound volume is turned up, something I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > want to know just in case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, if the start up sound is provided, does it > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > also happen when awakening the mac, opening the >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > lid?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The following information
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is important for all > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > members of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Mac Visionaries list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > running of this list, or if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feel that a member's > > > > > > > > > > > post is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inappropriate, please contact the owners or > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > moderators directly rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> posting on the list > > > > > > > > > > > itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > Taylor. You can reach mark at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> and your owner is Cara
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quinn > > > > > > > > > > > - you can reach Cara at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > emails from it, send an email to > > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > [email protected].
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > > > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5248E79B-445C-4DEA-8650-511DB05421FB%40me.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > The following information
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is important for all members > > > > > > > > > of the Mac
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > of this list, or if you feel that a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member's post is > > > > > > > > > inappropriate,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> please contact the owners or moderators > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > can reach mark at: [email protected] and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your owner is Cara > > > > > > > > > Quinn - you can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach Cara at [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > from it, send an email to > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/2AB168FC-3EEC-416E-9F2B-B2FBD8BD8CAE%40me.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/2AB168FC-3EEC-416E-9F2B-B2FBD8BD8CAE%40me.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > -- > > > > > > > > The following information is important for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all members of > > > > > > > > the Mac Visionaries list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of > > > > > > > > this list, or if you feel that a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member's post is > > > > > > > > inappropriate, please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contact the owners or moderators > > > > > > > > directly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > can reach mark at: [email protected] and your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owner is Cara > > > > > > > > Quinn - you can reach Cara
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > from it, send an email to > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/A4716192-E524-467E-A58C-19B93E126526%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/A4716192-E524-467E-A58C-19B93E126526%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> following information is important for all members of > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> > the Mac Visionaries list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > this list, or if you feel that a member's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> post is > > > > > > > inappropriate, please contact the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owners or moderators > > > > > > > directly rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> posting on the list itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > can reach mark at: [email protected] and your owner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is Cara > > > > > > > Quinn - you can reach Cara at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > > from it, send an email to > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected].
>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/CCFD3B7D-F62D-4B8F-BE0E-60381C95FDBE%40me.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > The following
>>>>>>>>>>>> information is important for all members of the > > > > > Mac
>>>>>>>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > list, or if you feel that a member's post is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inappropriate, > > > > > please contact the owners or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moderators directly rather than > > > > > posting on the list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > reach mark at: [email protected] and your owner is Cara
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quinn - > > > > > you can reach Cara at [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > > it, send an email to > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>.
>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/2A07E075-E007-41A8-B754-995BA005305A%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/2A07E075-E007-41A8-B754-995BA005305A%40gmail.com>.
>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > The following information
>>>>>>>>>> is important for all members of the Mac > > > Visionaries list.
>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this > >
>>>>>>>>>>> > list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate,
>>>>>>>>>>> please > > > contact the owners or moderators directly rather than
>>>>>>>>>>> posting on the > > > list itself.
>>>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >
>>>>>>>>>>> > > mark at: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> and your owner
>>>>>>>>>>> is Cara Quinn - you can > > > reach Cara at [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >
>>>>>>>> > Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >
>>>>>>>> > send an email to [email protected]
>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>.
>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > > >
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/6104684C-F25D-42B7-8ACC-E4B255CC096F%40me.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/6104684C-F25D-42B7-8ACC-E4B255CC096F%40me.com>.
>>>>>>>> > > > > > -- > The following information is important for all members
>>>>>>>> of the Mac > Visionaries list.
>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
>>>>>>> or > if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
>>>>>>> the > owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list
>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark
>>>>>>> > at: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> and your owner is Cara
>>>>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara > at [email protected]
>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >
>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >
>>>>>> an email to [email protected]
>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>.
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/926B88DA-D022-428F-92AD-7EE71396A401%40me.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/926B88DA-D022-428F-92AD-7EE71396A401%40me.com>.
>>>>>> > >
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at:
>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you
>>>> can reach Cara at [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>
>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>>> email to [email protected]
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5b1dd087-e85b-eb95-b7ff-5f73ca33ccdf%40icloud.com
>>>>
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5b1dd087-e85b-eb95-b7ff-5f73ca33ccdf%40icloud.com>.
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at:
>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you
>> can reach Cara at [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to [email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/10621219-5623-47E1-9DA8-F71E72AF44ED%40me.com
>>
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/10621219-5623-47E1-9DA8-F71E72AF44ED%40me.com>.
--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries
list.
If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at:
[email protected] and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
[email protected]
The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/1C659356-88B6-4D3B-8482-4173A9A5ADCC%40gmail.com.
