I thought there was a BCP on SpamTraps that if they were automatic, they had to 
5xx all traffic for 6 months?

Michael J Wise
Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
"Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
Got the Junk Mail Reporting 
Tool<http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=18275> ?

From: mailop <mailop-boun...@mailop.org> On Behalf Of David Carriger
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 11:26 AM
To: Brett Schenker <bhschen...@gmail.com>; Aaron C. de Bruyn via mailop 
Subject: Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I've seen cases where a legitimate domain 
name will expire and be converted to a spam trap within a week. Then the 
original domain owner will renew it before it goes back to the registry, and it 
will point back to its pre-expiry MX records.

In the worst examples I've seen, the domain went from a legitimate mail server 
to a trap network in the same day, with no time for bounces in between.

List cleaning can certainly be used by unscrupulous marketers, and I'm opposed 
to that use of it. On the other hand, what should we tell a good marketer who 
is sending to confirmed, engaged addresses that have converted into traps 

From: mailop <mailop-boun...@mailop.org<mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org>> on 
behalf of Brett Schenker <bhschen...@gmail.com<mailto:bhschen...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 11:41:55 AM
To: Aaron C. de Bruyn via mailop
Subject: Re: [mailop] Hat color of list washers / validators

I work in the nonprofit/political space and while I can see uses to make sure 
offline email list building (think people on a corner asking you to sign 
up/sign a petition) has had the addresses typed in correctly, list 
washing/validating is unfortunately being used by more orgs and campaigns as a 
way to scrub their list instead of spending time and looking at engagement 
instead. They think it'll get rid of spam traps and they can keep sending to 
the unengaged portion of their list.

The habit seems to be driven by consultants in the space but I also know 
there's a lot of these services that have approached me offering kickbacks, I 
mean affiliate status so that we can profit off of the use.

It's a hard uphill battle against this.

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 12:20 PM, Steve Atkins 
<st...@blighty.com<mailto:st...@blighty.com>> wrote:
>> Also, if I'm not mistaking, list-validation services are mainly targeting
>> online businesses, so even if the there might be legit cases, I doubt the
>> biggest part of their revenues is.
> I'm not really familiar with their revenue model but I do know that for
> some of them, spammers and rogue marketers absolutely do not make up the
> majority of their client base, if at all.

They don't describe themselves that way, for sure. But the business model
is to take lists of email addresses of variable quality, then to wash those 
through a validation service, then send to them through an ESP.

The only value of the validation service here is to hide the quality and
provenance of the list from the ESP. It doesn't change anything else.
That's typically behaviour from a marketer who doesn't think the ESP
would continue to work with them if they saw the quality of their lists.

mailop mailing list

Brett Schenker
Man of Many Things, Including
5B Consulting - 
Graphic Policy - 

Twitter - 
LinkedIn - 
mailop mailing list

Reply via email to